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Panos in restricted space
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Re: Panos in restricted space
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 20:08 GMT
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confined spaces usually means extreme dof. i normally use a custom hyperfocal dist chart, but for inside cars, yachts, etc, you're most likely not going to get everything in focus. your best bet would be to close the aperture all the way, and try to position cam at least 4 feet from closest object. even if you cant, still manually set focus to 4 feet. this will ensure most everything stays sharp.
your gonna have to find the nodal point on your lens using trial and error process. first position it on pano head to make center of front glass as axis. take a couple pics of objects very close and far from lens to maximize the parallex error effect. then bit by bit, move the camera forward so 3d axis gets nearer to camera body. if you go past half way point on lens housing, you've probably went too far. you may not get it exactly perfect, but you need to work to approach perfection in these type of shooting conditions. mark camera position carefully on your pano head, so you can set it exactly the same next time you unpack your gear, without having to start tuning from scratch.
if you are shooting the interrior of the cabin, which is mostly closed off from natual light, but still have windows facing towards sun, your dynamic range will be far outside camera limits, so bracketing hdr will be a must. take 3 shots (+/- 2stops) of EVERY shot. current ptgui requires this for fully automated hdr linked stitching.
for your nadir, there are a couple options. you can either shoot a bunch of shots from varying degrees when angled down 60 degrees with your 20mm. you will then have to go into PS and cut out all tripod parts on all the source images. because you will hit the areas under the tripod at varying angles, you will end up with a pretty clean nadir.
if you want to completely eliminate the need for a nadir cap, and make the tripod legs vanish all together, you're gonna have to take a couple hand held shots. i've come up with a really cool way of doing this, both indoors and out. but much easier indoors.
when finished shooting the pano, rotate the camera straight down on your pano head (which ensures the nodial point stays put). then use a tack, or bit of duct tape to hang a string directly above your camera, with a heavy nail attached to the end (best to use a plumb bob). you may have an issue on a yacht with a rocking boat tho. hopefully you can do this when its docked in a calm bay. if this is an issue, you'll have to resort to the outdoor method, which i can detail if you'd like. anyway, adjust the height of the nail or plumb bob so it barely touches the back of your cam. i use a strong plastic clip to hold a loop of string once height is perfect. careful not to scratch the lcd with nail or plumb bob (i put a bit of hot glue on mine to prevent this). i then use one of those pens filled with whiteout liquid to temporarily mark the exact spot of the nail or plumb bob tip on the back of my cam body.
then you can take your camera off the tripod, move the tripod away, line up the back of your camera body with the lil whiteout dot, and make it level using a hotshoe spirit level. make sure cam settings are fast enough for hand held (<1/60s). as long as you had your tripod legs pulled in pretty tight for the pano, just one shot should do. you'll need to be careful to orient the camera in the same fashion it was on the tripod (base of camera body facing same direction). if not, the whole dot/string thing will put you off center.
doing this should actually allow you to include your nadir shot right in with your pano shots. ptgui should stitch this nearly perfectly. you will most likely end up with parts of your body in the frame, that will need to be cut out in PS before putting through your stitcher.
there are various other methods of closing up your nadir quite nicely, some much easier than the above process. but ive found my method to work quite well. its a bit crazy, but so is what we are doing.
-moto
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Tips & Tricks
Thread:
Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180 VR
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Re: Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 20:05 GMT
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if you could somehow block out everything else but the the actual colorcode anaglyph, i think it might be near perfect. perhaps black electrical tape on the lenses? i'll give that a shot.
anyway, because your monitor only takes up maybe 10% of your field of view, you still get a lot of area outside the colorcode image on your computer (or print) that is not coded. this results in a similarly weird color effect on everything else around, which kinda screws up the effect, because you brain wants to focus on the weird stuff.
also, if your eyes are not perfectly aligned with the coded image, you will again get some weird effects, and that sorta nauseating feeling.
so no, not perfect, but tons better than the red/blue glasses of the past. the mere fact that it can do full natural color in 3d is a major accomplishment.
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Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180 VR
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Re: Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 19:58 GMT
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good anaglyphs can only be done using grayscale source images (or close to it), resulting in a very strange colored stereo anaglyph (ie 1950s 3D movies).
i dont know if there will be much difference between the pro and cardboard glasses for colorcode. i just picked up 3 pairs of the plastic ones.
like i said, i do not know exactly how they do it. its a patented process, so you cant just go out and get a ps plugin to process the image sets for colorcode.
but however they manage it, they break up the colors in a way that allows full natural color anaglyphs.
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Autostitch limits me to 4 photos!
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Re: Autostitch limits me to 4 photos!
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 19:52 GMT
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www.autostitch.net should redirect you to the site of the orig sw dev. www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html
you can download the sw direct from that site. last time i used this sw (about 1yr ago) there was no such limitation. you should know tho, this amazing image processing engine is part of the core engine of autopano www.autopano.com
autopano is an amazing piece of software, and should be in everyone's libary, regardless of their level of work. i believe i've used each and every stitcher on the market to date, and still use a couple random ones for various things on occasion. but my two regulars are autopano and ptgui. autopano for the bulk stuff, and ptgui for the bigger/better stuff. it should be noted tho, that autopano can use its amazing autostitch processing engine (along with 2 other engines) to accurately find hundreds of low rms control points per image pair, and export those to ptgui.
-moto
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Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180 VR
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Re: Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 19:40 GMT
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i just received a pair of their 'pro' glasses in the mail. i have been using the mac encoding software to process some test (non pano) images ive taken in various conditions. i have a good bit of practice with the "cross eye" jps thing. so i know how to vary stereo separation and toe in correctly. the results using this colorcode thing is nothing short of miraculous. the only thing that ive seen that can top this is my MyVu stereo head positioning goggles, using a jps viewer to send seperate stereo images to each lcd display. but i cant expect everyone wishing to view my work to go out and buy a pair of $500USD lcd goggles. its bad enough to make them have to buy anything. but they can pick up a cheap pair of cardboard colorcode glasses very cheap (about $20USD after shipping).
the reason im so excited about the colorcode thing, is it finally allows representation of true 3d, in full color, without the need of expensive goggles, or straining your eyes to go crosseye'd, which many people cant seem to do.
its not perfect, but its really good. 1,000x better than a full color blue/red anaglyph.
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Forum:
Q & A
Thread:
Stereoscopic panoramas
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Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180 VR
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Colorcode-3D Anaglyph Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo 360 180 VR
Posted: 3 May 2008 at 12:38 GMT
updated: 3 May 2008 at 12:40 GMT
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Color-3D Stereoscopic Gigapixel Sperical HDR Panoramic Panoramas 3D Stereo Anaglyph 360 180 VR
Sorry for the lame thread title. It's done to help searches. I like this forum, and am seriously considering becoming a very active member here.
My Background:
My name is John Matulis. I'm 32, have the mind of a 60yr old, act and play like a 12yr old, and thankfully look like an 18yr old. I have been in love with photography my entire life. Got my first cam in 3rd grade. It was a department store freebe disney promotional 35mm POS, but I loved it. My parents knew how much I was into it, and got me a Polorid Instant camera for my 11th birthday. I actually captured some amazing stuff with that thing. A couple beautiful scenery photots, one of a waterfall in a trout stream, and one of a beach (both in michigan). Took thousands of pics with it.
One night, very late, after midnight, the older brother of my next door neighbor started ringing our doorbell, and frantically banging our door. My mom answered it, he asked for me. He knew I had that polorid. He told me to get it fast, and come over. I did. He was a highschool dropout, and spent all his time working on his car in his garage, and playing basketball in his driveway. This night, he was shooting hoops, and did something which may be the only time ever in the history. It was a perfectly still night, absolutely no wind. He took a shot, and it did a "toilet bowl". The strange thing was, it didn't go in, or fall out. Instead, the ball actually balanced perfectly on the front of the rim! I made it there in time to see it for myself. I took a couple pics. Only one came out where you could see anything, but I think I put a finger infront of part of the flash, so it didn't come out good. Anyway, it was good enough to capture the moment in time, that may have never happened before, and might never happen again.
I was already hooked on photography, but that did indeed make my passion that much stronger. The ability to capture moments in time visually was just amazing to me.
As time went on, and my knowledge of photography grew, so did my already crazy passion for it. The two constantly fed each other. As my passion grew, so did my motivation to learn everything I could about the subject, which in turn allowed me to capture moments in time more accurately, which in turn drove up my passion more, repeat, repeat.
Fast forward to current day. I have developed a nice career in radio frequency engineering, which along with my being single and not owning a house, allows me to afford whatever I need to fullfill my passion.
Recent breakthroughs in digital photography, image processing, equipment and techniques has led to what I perceive to be the holy grail of photography. That is nothing less than the ability to capture a moment in time from a visual sense, near perfection. Perfection being equal or better than what could be viewed by my own eyes.
I have now done this.
I have been very interested in VR Pano Photography for years now, and have acquired pretty much all of the best equipment available. I choose not to make a career out of photography for a number of reasons, mostly because I do not wish to spoil my love for the hobby. I did this once with my favorite sport (paintball), and refuse to do it with my favorite hobby (photography).
Anyway, finally, to the main point of this thread. Rather than rattling off a dozen words to describe the type of photography I am into now (refer to thread title if you wish), instead I will just call it "True VR Photography".
You guys can surf through the rest of this site for much of the technical info on the various equipments and techniques that make this amazing type of photography possible. The one new thing I wish to add here is something that hasn't been talked about much here. Colorcode-3D.
www.colorcode3d.com
The technology itself has been around for a few years now, but up till now, has not been fully utilized. The concept is fairly simple, and age old. Use software to apply a color mask to a set of stereo images, so you can use a pair of colored glasses to view the image in 3D.
In the past, this was a very simple process. Just modify the color levels for blue and yellow in the images, and view with those old cardboard glasses. The problem was, the resulting 3D image didn't look very good. Nothing like the real thing. It would give you headache if you looked at it too long, the colors were off, and the 3D effect couldn't really be seen well unless the pic was reduced to grayscale.
Well, that has now changed. The old images were called Anaglyphs. The new ones are simply called Colorcode-3D images (I know, not very imaginative). Anyway, this company has perfected a technique that allows full color stereo images to be viewed in true 3D using a similar technique of masking color levels. The actual image processing technique is patented, and has not been made public. So unfortunately, if you want to use this technology, you'll have to buy their encoding software. It only runs on macs. You also have to buy special glasses from them.
The amazing thing about this technology is the fact that it is the final link in the chain. We already know how to create perfectly stitched gigapixel HDR spherical panoramic photos, which results in moments captured in time nearly perfectly, just as how you saw it when standing there next to your camera. The only problem is that when viewing the images, you still didn't get the same 3D effect you get with your eyes. Well that has now changed.
I will keep this thread active for some time, updating it with many tips, equipment info, techniques, web links, recommendations, samples of my some of my work, experimental stuff, and various other bits of info on this amazing subject. In the time being, go ahead and check out colorcode. I really do see there being a quantum leap in photography in the near future. I would like to do away with all the techno mumbo jumbo, and just call it "TRUE VR".
To the regulars on this forum, please identify and introduce yourselves here when you have a chance. I think you've just gained a new friend here, whether you like it or not 
-moto
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Tips & Tricks
Thread:
How to take stereo panoramas with Nodal Ninja 3
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Re: How to take stereo panoramas with Nodal Ninja 3
Posted: 25 Apr 2008 at 9:23 GMT
updated: 25 Apr 2008 at 9:24 GMT
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i'll rework it when putting together the 360x180 version. but if i remember, i did center it within 1 degree. i took another look at it, and think what looks to be bowl distortion is actually mountains that just happen to make it have that affect. i really wish i would have had time to do this one hdr, but i was shooting with a fuji s2 which is very very slow, and my friends were kind enough to sit there and wait the half hour it took to get setup and take the pic.
oh, and you also got to remember i took the photo more than a half mile up. thats why the sealevel horizon is so far down.
-moto
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How to take stereo panoramas with Nodal Ninja 3
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Re: How to take stereo panoramas with Nodal Ninja 3
Posted: 24 Apr 2008 at 15:58 GMT
updated: 24 Apr 2008 at 16:13 GMT
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Nice technique Dorin. I have been into pano photo for about 4 years now, and am just getting started in stereo pano. I have the bogen manfrotto spherical pano head with additional components for accurate, and consistent camera positioning.
i was thinking i was going to have to use the various sliders to move the camera after i finish each pano, or perhaps even every shot if there are moving objects in scene. your technique is simple and ingenious. wish i would have thought of it lol.
anyway, thanks for the tips. in return, i feel obliged to share a tip of my own for you and the other guys/gals reading this forum.
you already touched on the fact that fisheye lenses make for more difficult parallax error problems. i would like to expand on that tho. with normal stitched panoramas, parallax is a bad thing, to be avoided at any cost (yes, it costs alot to avoid parallax lol). however, with stereo stitched panos, you actually want/need the parallax. this is what creates the stereo 3d affect after all.
i have experimented using various techniques, equipment, and camera settings. what worked best is using a long local length (85mm + the 1.6x sensor crop factor = 136mm effective focal length). i normally overlap by 1/3 frame, but in this case, use 1/2 to 2/3. Don't even consider shooting in RAW (which i normally ALWAYS do), as the total pano, especially if you are using bracketed images for hdr, will take hundreds of shots to complete a full 360x180 requiring multiple gigabytes of storage, and will be impossible to process. instead, i would recommend picking up a good gray card. www.whibal.com/ get the big one. use this to set a custom white balance, then shoot in medium resolution, low compression jpg. this will allow thousands of pics on an average memory card.
for those who have used autopano before www.autopano.net , and think of it as a 'toy app', its really not. if you dig into its engine, its actually a very powerful and efficient tool. and with recent versions, it has nearly unlimited power via its control point exporter that allows integration with pt software.
anyway, whether you use a program like ptgui (best imo) www.ptgui.com or something like autopano, as long as your scene has lots of static and unique texture in it, modern versions of the programs should handle the massive number of photos just fine, and stitch them nearly perfectly, with no parallax errors.
the key here is the long focal length. parallax errors get worse as you move away from the center axis, thats why fisheye lenses have such bad problems with parallax errors. but as long as you are shooting from a good tripod, with your nodal point centered in all axis except side to side, you shouldnt have any problem stitching together the pano using automated tools, if you stick with a long lens.
now, going with a longer focal length, you will have to worry a bit more about your focusing. i hope you are all already quite aware of the concept of hyperfocal distance. if not, google it. here's a nice lil tool that allows you to print out a hfd chart to take along with you on your shoots www.dofmaster.com/charts.html don't attempt to keep EVERYTHING in focus with maxed aperture, unless the entire scene has exceptionally good bright mid-day sunlight. as long as you stick to your hfd chart, you can keep the infinite horizon in focus, and still be good at about 30 feet or so. the areas under your tripod and directly around will not be in perfect focus, unless you refocus for nearfield (always gotta be careful when doing this, because the closer you focus, the smaller your dof). it can create ghosting really easily and create stitching problems. anyway, a soft focus under the tripod is usually fine, as it helps to soften the nearly impossible to avoid alignment errors when taking that last vertical shot. actually, if anyone has tips on how to do under the tripod shots easily and accurately, i'd like to hear about it.
just remember, this technique will not work (by itself) for the sky. not to worry tho. ive actually given up attempting to shoot the sky in the same pano. i only shoot up the horizon till i hit all the land, then switch to a fisheye to shoot the sky, and merge the two with image editing apps.
btw, as you can probably tell, im nutts about this stuff, and a research junkie, and have tons of photo equipment, and have done many many trial/error experiements. so if anyone wishes to learn more from my mistakes, reply to post or shoot me an email. johnmatulis@gmail.com
oh, and heres one of my most recent panos. i havent finished the spherical version yet, this ones about 360x120. im workin on a new website to show off more of my stuff. www.john.matulis.net/photography/panos/hawaii/sta...
one last thing, www.colorcode3d.com/whatis/index.htm awesome. havent tried yet yet, but thats my next move. ive always liked the panoguide forums, even tho i havent been an active contributer. but now that ive got some good experience under my belt, and especially since im bustin into the stereo stuff, i figured id get more active here to share knowledge and experience.
-moto
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