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VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
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Re: VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
Posted: 19 Aug 2005 at 8:35 GMT
updated: 19 Aug 2005 at 8:41 GMT
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I am thinking of taking a price similar to Smooth's, that is a "higher-end" approach. For the "salami and white bread" type of everyday VR+Stills, I think I'll structure it on a retainer approach. High up-front, and gets a little cheaper for a bunch of business...there is the "This is Southeast Oklahoma" mentality, "we never did it before..." is a good enough reason to not do things around here.
Fuel is a huge aspect of the cost...not that its high (I've travelled extensively so I know its still cheap) but that the range I COULD cover is easily 5 small counties, lots of twisty roads south and east of me. There is NO VR or higher quality photo support in this area...but, a bunch of buying pressure from Dallas, OKC, Tulsa and out-of-the-area. We have a large lake (Eufaula) that is an artificial lake, hence has a weird shoreline, and a LOT of houses on it.
There is an opportunity, I just have to figure how to not go broke harvesting it. My living costs here are looooowwwww, and yeah, there's a lot of trailers  but I'm in a little house. House payments around here are like truck payments.
Can anyone address the merge-to-HDR aspect? Do you think its important to have the "inside plus the view"? I'm thinking so... any comments/flames about that Barn VR? I picked that one to publish for criticism because of all the straight lines in it. 24 exposures with 17-85 IS on a 20D in portrait orientation. Built with PTGui.
Thanks again guys...
G.
p.s. The patent thing is a nightmare, talk about a barrier to trade!
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VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
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Re: VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 18:21 GMT
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I have been checking into the whole IP?X thing, and, it looks like one can pay Ford Oxxal a royalty, and you're done. They lost the suit to Ford, so, his license trumps them.
Is there something more about this than I have gathered, legal-wise? It looks like Ford is slow at getting their software out (from what I can tell) but their legal standing is solid.
G.
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VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
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VR Tours: Pricing Advice?
Posted: 16 Aug 2005 at 6:45 GMT
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Hiya! Thanks to all your help, I can make a convincing VR of a difficult subject (dark, lots of lines, scary hay spike pointing at the camera doesn't move) again thanks to all your tips:
www.okmusic.us/vr/bigshop.html
Now its to pricing. I live in a low-density rural area, lots of ranches and a good number of big, fancy houses that need tours. Mileage will definitely be an issue, with rising gas prices here in the US.
Would anyone kindly share the structure of their pricing even if the values are not meaningful here in Southeast Oklahoma?
Of note are some particular isses:
- Do Real Estate agents typically need you to host VR's?
- Do RE Agents ask for monthly retainer agmts including flat-rate retainers?
- Do you wait for property sale to collect, or, do you collect on service delivery? (Is there a benefit to wait?)
- How do you deal with mileage?
- How much quality do you feel you have to deliver?
- Do you feel Merge-to-HDR is necessary for your customers images, or, are burned-out windows ok?
Thanks much...sorry for all the questions, but, I sense some other photographers are going through the same pain as myself....hopefully this will help.
G.
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Forum:
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New Guy: Real Estate Tours
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Re: New Guy: Real Estate Tours
Posted: 8 Aug 2005 at 5:28 GMT
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May I ask...what do you like to use to produce the actual tours themselves tool-wise? Also, what viewer(s) do you use?
Thanks again...
G.
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Forum:
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Please recommend good software for QT Object making (PC platform)
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Re: Please recommend good software for QT Object making (PC platform)
Posted: 8 Aug 2005 at 5:25 GMT
updated: 8 Aug 2005 at 5:26 GMT
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As a software engineer, I'm still surprised people don't put fully-functional software out that cripples the LOOK of the product...
I got turned off by an unnamed demo that was 70% functional, and it was for a 500$ do-it-all product full of typos and 2 repeatable crashes.
But then again, I have owned Photovista since '96, loved it and love it now, but, it has the SAME BUG its had since '96. Obviously the team was a casualty of being bought/sold a few times from Live Picture.
G.
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Forum:
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Suggestions for 20D
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Re: Suggestions for 20D
Posted: 8 Aug 2005 at 5:20 GMT
updated: 8 Aug 2005 at 5:23 GMT
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I have the 20D, and both the 10-22 and the 17-85 IS. I am using PTGui, and the RRS pano-elements package. It takes me 23-25 images in portrait to make a 360, and the learning curve on PTGui was at-first frustrating (I have a 100M$ tip if you need it) but now the results are pretty darned good. I have calibrated the RRS pano head for the 17-85 (which is my tote-around-news-lens) but haven't yet for the 10-22.
I am looking really hard at the 360Precision head, and, the Kaidan 360 One Shot. I can see the points of owning both:
Kaidan:
+: Live events/moving objects, overhead shots (monopod), remote shots (ladder, traffic, unattended), reduced labor (no stitching), comes with software but other software can inhale its donut format
-: Image quality is just ok, not bomb-proof, 1000US$ with SLR bracket and goodies (Arca-Swiss-Style quick-detach plate)
360Precision:
+: Reduced labor (templated batch stitching), ULTRA high quality images, stout!, did I mention quality? Take a look at their images, they are poster-quality.
-: No live shots without lots of work or planning or multi-exposure (like all pano rigs), 1000US$, particular to a camera/lens combo
For a lot of things, especially for civil forensic, I can see using both, absolutely. Live rock shows, fairs, corporate events? Quickie jobs (low-rez)? Kaidan. Luxury homes with AMAZING exposed carved wooden beams, beautiful rock firplaces to the ceiling, stunning golf-course views, blow-out-big-bucks kitchens? 360, hands down.
I like my RRS setup too...I'm using it for all kinds of non-pano stuff too like video and regular photo too. But, I'm hip to what's going on now especially in Real Estate, its all about cutting your labor down.
The standard thing I've heard here and elsewhere is "PTGui will kick your butt, make you cry, but, when you master it, it will definitely do the job and nicely." My first pano? 21.5 hrs. My 2nd (source of the "ferris wheel" post here) 2.5hrs, including the problem. My 3rd (again, 25 images) 40mins.
I am going to put it into production, and, find something else for the web-publishing tour type stuff.
So far, on that front, I remain skeptical about the worthiness of some of the 500$ do-it-all products. 500$ goes a long way to getting DreamWeaver MX or the entire Adobe CS Suite for that matter.
G.
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PTGui: images in "ferris wheel"?
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Re: PTGui: images in "ferris wheel"?
Posted: 3 Aug 2005 at 20:47 GMT
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Now this is weird...I was "debugging" my setup last night with my first pano (Dollar Store)...and turned off all the optimization check points, and then turned them on, 3 at a time, and turned on the preview checkboxes 3 at a time, re-optimizing, re-previewing...
...and it works! Huh?!
This same thing just worked (to preview) now, and, that's baffling to me!
The pano went from rotated-90-CCW-and-ferriswheel to tilted-30-degrees-and-swirling-to-downward and then by doing this 'progressive optimization' thing it now is normal!?
Any clues?
Thanks in advance...
Noob in OK
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PTGui: images in "ferris wheel"?
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PTGui: images in "ferris wheel"?
Posted: 3 Aug 2005 at 20:29 GMT
updated: 3 Aug 2005 at 20:31 GMT
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Hiya guys...I made my first pano with PTGui, since so many of you have advised me that it is a useful skill to learn...and I appreciate it: www.okmusic.us/a2.html
This was portrait, RRS pano, Canon 20D, Large Fine JPEG, manual mode (but I forgot and left it in AF), custom color balance. Its a "good enough" pano... Regretably, I only had my 17-85IS, and that resulted in 25 images! Whoa! I'm calibrating my slide tonite for the 10-22, no kidding.
Now, I am trying an interior, same setup, but RAW.
Here's my problem: I opened the RAW files in PSCS2, saved as JPEG after seeing they're ok, and started to use PTGui. I set 3 control points and they optimize to "very good". When I run the preview, I get a "ferris wheel".
The images are rotated -90, and the pano is a vertical, like riding on a ferris wheel. When manually correcting pitch and roll to 0's, the "warped" window looks correct finally...but optimizer then makes the pics into a swirlee! (think: mixed flavors of soft-serve ice cream from a machine).
Is this some EXIF artifact? How does PTGui figure out how the images are rotated? I see on a couple forums and the YahooGroup mention of "landscape vs. portrait" but I see no such setting in the software.
Clueless in OK
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Forum:
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Which VT Software? Postive Vs Negative?
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Re: Which VT Software? Postive Vs Negative?
Posted: 2 Aug 2005 at 3:51 GMT
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Ditto.
If you believe the hype, Photovista VT Biz sounds cool.
Anyone have any direct experience with it?
G.
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Q & A
Thread:
New Guy: Real Estate Tours
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Re: New Guy: Real Estate Tours
Posted: 1 Aug 2005 at 20:06 GMT
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Thanks for both replies...I've looked at both systems...and man, that bracket is an amazing machine! I have looked at the examples very carefully (Love the B&O store example) and was led to that site by the simply amazing Cambridge tours site. (That gentleman really put some time in, plus, the subject is pretty nice too ....love the museum with the dinosaur).
What's weird, is that I can see myself using three rigs...because there's always trade-offs:
1) My existing RRS rig ("pano elements") single-row...for quick variable-overlap single row, non-360 shots. Will be shooting a 3-building "strip" type real estate shot today, probably 7 shots with the 17-85 IS (haven't determined the nodal super-precisely with my other lenses yet).
2) The 360precision bracket looks like the end-all-do-all product for making what I call "magnifying glass quality" 360's...they are beautiful shots. The overall results are the best I've seen. Clearly, no "two fisheye" type shots can be that clear.
3) The Kaidan 360 One: I shoot a lot of "live events" and there is NO substitute for being able to shoot a single shot...big crowds, events with action (think about more than 100 motorcycles returning to a gathering of 450 more motorcycles from a short "hop" ride).
That's all a bunch of money, but, the results are what we sell. I'm still figuring out pricing
Thanks for the tips, and or any more!
G.
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New Guy: Real Estate Tours
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New Guy: Real Estate Tours
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New Guy: Real Estate Tours
Posted: 1 Aug 2005 at 4:12 GMT
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Hiya...I am just saying "hey" and I am glad to see such an excellent resource for panorama photography. I have previously only "fooled around" with panos made from digicams, in the late 90's while working next door (as it happened) to Live Picture in the early days.
These days, I do a number of photography types of work, and am hoping to add Real Estate Tours to my other work.
If anyone has any specific recommendations on tools, specifically relating to generating the 360 shots, and an integrated tool (like the various "tour builders") that would help you create multiple QTVR's and hot link them together.
I currently have a SLR setup, 20D + 10-22, 17-85, and others, but will get whatever I need, to reduce stitching time and max. profit.
My area is a low-density population area, and, homes are on the "affordable" side, but there are definitely 1M$ ranches around here too, and, they need the full work-up (including video, that's for another forum ).
I am looking really hard at the Kaidan 360-One VR lens attachment, as I also shoot "live" events (from rock shows to county fairs, from wrestling to biker meets) and these don't lend (due to motion of subjects) to stitching.
Info on pricing (scheme) would be appreciated as well. I'm not looking for the "do it this way" but more the theory "mileage plus time vs. flat rate" type info.
Any comments/hints/tips/pointers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Greg in Oklahoma
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