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Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 22:32 GMT
updated: 29 Jul 2010 at 22:38 GMT
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Hi Jon! don't worry about my last post, it was just a reply for Heinz to his gratuitous attack.
I felt really offended by many things that he said and I just reply with some of anger I guess.
But he is right in something, I'm amateur and I don't have money to make my own tests.
Thanks to Judy again and the others members that tried to help me.
I won't be "abusing" of the forum again.
hindenhaag said: Why don't you look out for an extra job during night times in the cleaning business for example to buy a samyang on your own and test it in your own time?
You don't have any idea what you are saying
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Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 20:05 GMT
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Hello Heinz,
I'm not trying to abuse of the forum or any member. I'm just asking for some help, and that's one of the functions of a forum, at least that's what I feel, I'm admin of a forum here in Argentina, I created it, maintain, and pay the server every year, there's no ads, and the forum was created for HELPING students in our career (specially from the firsts years), and I helped people of my forum with tasks that take me a lot of time just for that, for helping. I have helped in a lot of forums too, and I did it because I feel it like an exchange, I received many times very useful help from many forums. I don't understand why you are feeling so damaged by my questions, I'm not demanding you anything, you are free to answer (even read) or not.
And I'm completely grateful with Judy for the test he did, and that won't change if he can't make another one.
Maybe I'm not useful at this moment in this forum because I'm learning, sorry for that, but I'm always trying to help if I can, in fact in this forum when I read a post about panos inside a car, and I saw that many people were not understanding the technique, I was for more than 15 minutes seeking in my files for a picture that explains it better, and it doesn't was my post, it doesn't was of my importance, but I remember that I've seen that image a few time ago, and I just felt the necessity and desire of searching and posting it.
If you lost that spirit, then I think it is not me who is abusing the forum.
I have promised to Jan (the admin of Diystreetview) that I will help him with their Flash Viewer, that's my time, my effort, and I'm not feeling abused for that! I do that just because I want to help, like many others helped me.
And yes, of course, I'm asking for my interests like you said, but who's not doing that in a forum when he asks something? and maybe you didn't note something, but I explained what I was trying to do just because many members asked it, and the reason for that was because although this post today, is particularly useful for me, it could help a lot of people in the future, that's why the posts are not deleted, and that's why I was trying to make my questions in a general form, not restricting to my own interests.
There are a lot of people trying to decide what lenses to buy, and probably they don't need it for a multicamera system or something like me, but they need this information too, perhaps to know how many pics they can take with a samyang, how big is the hole in nadir/zenith with 4 shots, etc.
Also, I was trying to "develop" a technique for selecting the best way to take every shot depending on the camera and lenses and the fov requiered. A member from the PanoTools list teach me a good technique that I'm testing (using colored images and PTGui), and that's another very useful thing that could leave this thread.
And of course, I will post my results when I had them.
I'm asking for help Heinz, not abusing the forum, if you can't see the difference then it is not me who is wrong.
Greets!
Enrique.
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Forum:
Q & A
Thread:
Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 15:58 GMT
updated: 29 Jul 2010 at 16:01 GMT
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mediavets said: Perhaps you could explain a little more just what your 'target' is. By which I mean perhaps you can describe the sort of panos you are hoping to shoot and in what situations and just what sort of performance is essential (and why).
I am confused....I had thought that perhaps you are seeking to do a sort of StreetView on the cheap...but perhaps I am mistaken?
No, you are right, that's one of my goals, but not the only.
I need a lot of systems, one for Stereo panoramas (this is done already, although I couldn't test it personally), a system to make street views over a car, so in this situation we need a multicamera without exception, because we are moving at 10m/s or much more.
There's a lot of options for this, but they are or really poor quality, or really expensive.
And I want to make it with DSLR and fisheye, because I want RAW files (for HDR) and I want High Quality in my images. I'm almost convinced I can make it with 3 D3 and Sigma 8mm or Sunex, a Nikkor shaved, etc. But I'm looking for low cost options.
Also, I need a system for aerial panoramas, this is in development too, and there are a lot of options but I'm trying to make it with DSLR (and that again is complicating the things...).
Also, I need a system for action panoramas, I can't take more than 2 seconds for a pano, again, I can make that with Sunex lenses for example, but if I can make it with a Samyang, then I will save more than U$D500.
How you can see the systems are not common, and there are a LOT of options, I can't buy all the cameras and lenses just for testing, that's why I'm asking for pictures to make the tests.
In this case, I'm trying to see if a Samyang can be an option. It seems that with just 4 pictures is not enough to cover 360x180, but there is another option:
1) 4 pictures to cover 360x160 approx.
That's why I want to see how big is the hole in Nadir (no hole in zenith) with a Samyang...
mediavets said: One thing's certain there is no single camera/lens/head setup that's ideal for shooting every sort of pano.
I agree
mediavets said: I think you may be underestimating how difficult it will be to design a viable 4xDSLR setup.
No I don't, you can be sure, there are a lot of problems, synchronization, FPS of the cameras, shutters problems, high speed memories, automatic switch for memories, continuous power alimentation, etc. etc.
I'm engineering, I can fight with those electro-mechanic problems, but I'm not photographer, so my problem is the proper election of the camera and lenses.
mediavets said: The only fast single axis robotic heads I know of are:
1. Roundshot VR drive 's'
www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d4...
2. MK Panomachine 5.0
www.vr-head.com/english/mk-panomachine/index.html
3. Photoship one Autotrigger
www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/7377/
Yes, I've seen them, but they are too expensive for something of a really simple construction, and I need even more speed.
Thanks Andrew for your reply!
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Forum:
Q & A
Thread:
Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 22:49 GMT
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Yes, you are right about the little overlap and hand-held panoramas.
Anyway, that's not my target.
I have two possible options with Samyang:
1) multicamera, single-shot system with 4 cameras
2) robotic panohead (I need to make a really fast rotation, 1 or 2 second as much)
Ladybug3 from ptgrey is very expensive, $16K, and the quality is really bad.
Google is using cameras from elphel, they have better quality (not like a DSLR anyway), but they cost even more, around $25K
Judy-A said: I took the test shots in my home, so don't want to provide the images for privacy reasons. Sorry, I have no time to shoot another sequence in a more public place.
Judy
I understand, thanks anyway for the test!
If there's someone else with a Samyang and a camera with 1.5X that can take some pictures to test it will be very helpful to me.
Can I ask you a last favor Judy? can you make the 4 shots but pointing up the camera (and fixed in that position), trying to have a full zenith and the smaller nadir? I think that will stitch easier, and maybe the hole in nadir is not so big...
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Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 21:51 GMT
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mediavets said: Previously you insisted that you would only consider a 3-camera 'one shot' system.
Now you are talking of 4-cameras - and also handheld.
a 3 camera system needs lenses of $800 or more
Samyang costs only $250, so I can buy an extra camera for the same price. And I'm trying to see which is the best option.
I really don't understand your comment, I can't avoid to see some hostile sense in it, and I don't know why, I'm just asking for some help not trying to bother you if you are feeling that.
mediavets said: I can't wait to see you try that.
There's a lot of people shooting really great hand-held panoramas, and using the philopod technique.
I'm not telling that's what I want to do, It was just another possible advantage for the 4xShots sequence with Samyang.
Judy-A said: My test conclusion: Insufficient overlap.
Hi Judy!, thanks for testing it, I was afraid of that conclusion 
Can you send me (or upload) your pictures to make some tests?
Maybe how John said, if we adjust some parameters we can make a better stitch.
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Forum:
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Thread:
Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Re: Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 19:58 GMT
updated: 28 Jul 2010 at 20:00 GMT
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Well, how you said, we can make a special panohead for this.
And, if you want to make a multicamera system, you can fix 4 cameras in their right position for a single shot panorama.
PS: also, if you are shooting without tripod, hand-held, it's easy to tilt the camera in every shot.
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Samyang Test (4 shots)
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Samyang Test (4 shots)
Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 17:40 GMT
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Hi! I need help from someone with a Samyang 8mm and a Camera APS-C (1.5X).
I need to test if we can cover a full 360x180 with 4 shots, in this way:
1) YAW = 0º, PITCH: -15º
2) YAW = 90º, PITCH: +15º
3) YAW = 180º, PITCH: -15º
4) YAW = 270º, PITCH: +15º
(that is, 4 shots every 90º and pointing down and up)
I have made a test in PTGUI and it seems to be working fine:
But i would be better with real shots.
Can somebody make this test? or take the pictures? I will make the panorama...
THANKS!!
Enrique.
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Tips & Tricks
Thread:
Samyang 8mm Fisheye Canon APS-C
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Re: Samyang 8mm Fisheye Canon APS-C
Posted: 25 Jul 2010 at 19:16 GMT
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What would be the size of the nadir with 3 shots (covering the full zenith)?
I'm triyn to deduce it but I don't know how to maximize the coverage of the lenses.
I mean, if you look at Sigma 8mm, you will se its vfov (in landscape) is <120º but you can make a full pano with 3 shots anyway!!
I think Samyang vfov (landscape) is only 102º, dfov 180º, and I don't know hfov...
I want to cover 360H and the maximum ºV (covering the full zenith) with 3 shots. How should I put the camera in every shot?
Thanks!!
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Samyang/Kaidan.Nikon D300
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Re: Samyang/Kaidan.Nikon D300
Posted: 23 Jul 2010 at 21:06 GMT
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for 3 shot multicamera with DSLR? can you link the post hindenhaag?
Thanks!
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Forum:
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Full Sphere with 3 Shots (list of lenses and cameras)
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Re: Full Sphere with 3 Shots (list of lenses and cameras)
Posted: 23 Jul 2010 at 20:32 GMT
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Wow! I let the post for a few hours and we are talking about Michelaneglo now ^_^
Let's see... we must understand that there are very different escenarios. I'm not planning to make a HQ panorama from an Hotel with a multicamera system, and I will try to make more pictures than "minimum neccesary".
But there are situations where the speed is crucial. Like Action panoramas (imagine a racing car for example, if you wait just ONE second, the car is gone).
Imagine making something like Google StreetView, your camera is moving with your car at 10meters/second, you can't wait more than 10ms in taking your pano!
The problem with multi-camera is the parallax errors, but if our objects are not too close, we are fine, Google is using 9 cameras, they have stitching errors in some panos, but it's OK for their application.
We can make a full pano with 3 shots using Sigma 8mm even with a cropped (1.5x) sensor. Samyang seems to be 9mm, so I think it's on the limit for 1.5x sensors, it's a pity
Coastal lenses are too expensive.
FC-E8 and compact cameras have a poor quality, and if we are planning to put the cameras over a car (or something else) then they have big problemas (inside a car we need to take 2 FULL panoramas every second, that's really fast).
Mirror systems are poor quality too and they can't shot the sky.
Multi-camera systems like the one used by google costs over $25K (and they are not HQ)
Multi-camera systems are not new, we can buy 3DSLR FF and 3 Sigma (or 3 samyang...shaved), we can buy 4DSLR (1.5X) and 4 Sigma, 2DSLR adn 2 Coastal, etc. etc. but I'm trying to make a "low" cost system, that's why I was asking for a full list of cameras and lenses to take a full pano with just 3 shots (2 shots is impossible, is low quality and/or very expensive).
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Full Sphere with 3 Shots (list of lenses and cameras)
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Re: Full Sphere with 3 Shots (list of lenses and cameras)
Posted: 23 Jul 2010 at 11:18 GMT
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I'm trying to make a single-shot system, if I must to shot 4 pictures then I need to buy one more camera, one more fisheye, one more memory card, the system is heavy, the cameras are even more distant so we have more parallax errors, etc.
I'm looking for a "low" cost 3 shot system, it will be great to use the Samyang lenses to make it because Sigma is 3 times expensive.
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Re: Samyang/Kaidan.Nikon D300
Posted: 23 Jul 2010 at 11:06 GMT
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Because I'm trying to make a single-shot system, if I must to shot 4 pictures then I need to buy one more camera, one more fisheye, one more memory card, etc.
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Samyang/Kaidan.Nikon D300
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Forum:
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360 pano inside a car?
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Tips & Tricks
Thread:
Samyang 8mm Fisheye Canon APS-C
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Re: Samyang 8mm Fisheye Canon APS-C
Posted: 23 Jul 2010 at 9:00 GMT
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is not possible to make a panorama with 3 shots using a sensor with 1.5X and the Samyang (not shaved)?
(I can have a big nadir, like those leaved by Google Street View)
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