Marco W
Posts: 111
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Registered: 12 Feb 2010
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Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 18:42 GMT
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After presenting my customer a virtual tour of 2 spherical panoramas, he has some issues with the scenes which basically mean i have to reshoot the panoramas.
www.360panophoto.com/panoramas/charming/charming1...
Although the customer is happy with the resulting quality, he has 3 issues of which two basically mean i have to re-shoot both panoramas:
1. In the outdoor view of the restaurant, the street lighting is too bright and a distraction to the dimly lighted scene of the restaurant.
This could be fixed in post process by blurring and darkening details and light in the street I think.
2. The Restaurant is too empty meaning there are not enough customers visible.
This would mean reshoot. As the inside of the restaurant has the best light and i shot this scene at 1/5 f/5.6 ISO1600 (D300, Sigma 8mm) to get a proper exposure, it will be very difficult to get non ghosting people in the final panorama. As i shot both scenes bracketed (7 shots at 1Ev apart) to open some shadow detail, there will have to be done a lot of masking for the people I am afraid.. (Shooting with flash would ruin the atmosphere of the restaurant)
3. The details (furniture / decorations and people) of the inside restaurant view do not match the view inside from outdoor scene. (both panoramas were not shot on the same day)
This would mean reshoot.
Questions;
- How would you handle the situation and shooting conditions?
- Does clearly visible restaurant guests need to sign a "model release"?
- Do you use (signed) pre-defined Terms & Conditions and what should be addressed (e.g. people, furniture, clean, broken light bulb etc)?
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Bob Stone
Posts: 287
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 19:43 GMT
updated: 27 Apr 2011 at 19:45 GMT
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1) Picky customer, these are fine panos and most people would be happy with them.
2) You could round up friends and family (actors) to remain perfectly still during the shoot or you could try not using bracketing and fix in post. Shadows/highlights can do wonders if used correctly.
3) They are pretty close, Indoor looks a bit too yellow and outdoor a bit too magenta. maybe you can tweak the colors selectively?
I think you would need a model release if these panos are being used commercially but not sure how this is handled in Bali. Of course if you use friends/family it would be easy to obtain.
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 20:57 GMT
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Marco
Do you have a contract or written agreement?
Did it specifiy that you would supply models?
If not, and the restaurant owner doesn't like how few people he has in his restaurant, he needs to get more business or supply the models, provided he was aware of when you were doing the shoot.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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iam360Texas
Posts: 298
Location: Fort Worth, Texas, United States
Registered: 12 Jul 2006
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 23:31 GMT
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Anyone watch Judge Judy on afternoon TV? She is a very articulate Legal Judge... Written Contract is a 'Must do' if you are in business for Photographic contract work.
No written contract for photographic services? Bite the bullet and you must perform or pay !
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Marco W
Posts: 111
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Registered: 12 Feb 2010
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 5:27 GMT
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Thanks for your thoughts and replies guys!
@Bob; Sure is a picky customer, but he has the right as he paying good money for it  Also it is good to learn from as I just starting out with the pano business.
Will inform the customer that the only way to get the people non ghosted with this slow shutter speed is to make them pose and maybe offer a free drink or dessert as a "reward" or find friends or models.
The law in Indonesia is not very "tight", but as the customer sure want some western people in the photo I think their permission has to be arranged in a good way.
Slight difference in color between outdoor and indoor panorama are easily fixed and i will try to make the new panoramas with single shot 14bit raws.
@Doug; We didn't make an written agreement or contract and learning from this I have to develop one for upcoming jobs! Do you have some example points to include in an agreement/contract Doug?
@360Texas; This job sure opens my eyes and to prevent problems in the future, I have to make a contract for the panorama work that hopefully will make me busy 
Are there any examples somewhere online (will have a search myself also after finishing this reply).
Any suggestions from the Pros here on the forum who know the challenges would be very welcome, which points need surely be included in a contract!??
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ddd
Posts: 783
Location: vancouver, Canada
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 6:44 GMT
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Why does it look like I am looking at the restaurant with a giant flashlight?
I hate shooting a restaurant with people, I have no idea why some owners want this. I would never recommend doing it, and I manage to talk them out of it most times, just mention paying models. You are selling the dream not the reality. Would you shoot a packed swimming pool for a hotel?
You could get sued or have a nasty run in with a customer. I would not put a revisit in the contract, but I would put a revisit on your price list. Most of the revisit issues are always out of your control, great to say sure I can do a revisit, they cost $XXX.XX When faced with paying for a revisit many will not be bothered.
Have fun
Dylan
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Marco W
Posts: 111
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Registered: 12 Feb 2010
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 1 May 2011 at 3:30 GMT
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Some owners of restaurant like to have their property full in the photo/pano as it looks like the place is popular. Sure is that when walking through a street with restaurants, the fuller ones attract more customers then the empty restaurants.. Maybe have to add a fee for panoramas with people as it is more work to make the panorama.
I am piecing together a Terms & Conditions for future jobs and will include that with clearly recognisable people in the panorama a model release or contract with the "models" is necessary.
Revisits/reshooting due to change in setting/arrangement of the property or when shooting ordered panorama's in one day is not possible by anything out of the power of the photographer (e.g. weather condition change etc) has to be included in Terms & Conditions also I think..
Any suggestions are welcome!
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Smooth
Posts: 3774
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 1 May 2011 at 5:54 GMT
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Marco,
I feel you have created at least some of the problems yourself. Either you have stated that you are inexperienced to the owner or the owners have picked up on your inexperience. Confidence has a lot to do with selling. Surely the owners knew you were shooting, and just how full the restaurant was at the time.
If they are looking back in retrospect and now see what they would like it to be, because of YOUR work. This should come at extra cost, unless there was a different agreement in place. Your customer should be very happy with these panoramas. There is an argument for the different colour hue between the two, but easily corrected. Had you use a neutral white balance card it would have never been wrong in the first place.
You say they are paying well, and so you will do what is wanted. Don't let the customer be the photographer, if they knew everything, they would have done the job themselves and what are they comparing with? Seems to me you are doing the job twice or more for the original agreed price and it's all down to how you have projected your own skill and manner.
The quality of your panoramas is fine, the vignetting effect suits the scene. Don't undersell yourself and be more confident.
It's all part of the learning process.
Regards, Smooth 
www.omnipix.com.au
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vn2009
Posts: 263
Location: duluth mn, United States
Registered: 24 Sep 2009
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 2 May 2011 at 15:19 GMT
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in regurads to the people that might be in the restaraunt during the photography. last month my wife and i travelled and entered a restarant shooting a real video commercial. they had a sign posted on the front door and the host, before seating, us also let us know that they were shooting a real comemrcial. if we choose to enter the restarant at that time we were acknowleging we knew about it and if we happened to end up in the comemrcial that was an assumed risk eating there at that time.
seemed like a good way to handle it. the place was full and noone seemed to care as they were all informed of the events prior to being seated.
i have a shoot this wednesday at an indoor theme park and we are going to try the same thing.
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Chuck Spaulding
Posts: 61
Location: Agoura Hils,, United States
Registered: 6 Jul 2010
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 5 May 2011 at 2:11 GMT
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Posting a sign or telling patrons as they enter does not obviate the need for a release.
They have the choice, close the restaurant to the public or have people sign a release as they enter.
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Marco W
Posts: 111
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Registered: 12 Feb 2010
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Re: Customer ordered re-shoot / Terms & Conditions
Posted: 10 May 2011 at 2:33 GMT
updated: 10 May 2011 at 2:35 GMT
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Thanks for your replies Vn2009, Chuck and Smooth, also for the encouraging words about my work!
Sure some problems are because of my inexperience in the business, but the main problem is that everything was not clear to both sides (not having and discussing a written "terms & conditions" and orientational visit before shooting).
For the next project, there have to be an orientational meeting and visit to the pano subject site first with the customer/requester for the shoot, to adress questions and discuss "terms & conditions" so it is clear that a re-shoot because of anything out of photographers power will be billed accordingly. Meeting has to include a visit to the pano subject site, so I can make an advice list what should (in my oppinion) be best changed/repaired/cleaned for the photo shoot (check lights working, clean, hoses, cables etc). Then on the day of photo session, the property is shot as-is, when cables were not removed, the place is dirty etc, it's not the concern of the photographer and cannot be a reason for a (free) re-shoot.
Regarding a photo shoot with clearly visible/recognisable people, I will tell the customer that person/company who publish the panorama/tour is responsable for a "model release", and it is not the concern of the photographer (although I can provide the customer a general written model release for usage).
As Vn2009 stated, it will probably reduce the risk of people complaining after publishing when clearly informed while entering the site during the shoot, however this is (probably) not a legally valid option and to prevent any problem, a signed written release should be used.
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