Oyvind Tryti
Posts: 25
Location: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 14 May 2007
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Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 2 Jul 2009 at 20:23 GMT
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The Nodal Ninja 5 is considered to be an excellent panorama head, with just one tiny glitch:
It is difficult to attach the camera plate to the camera with enough precision to be able to use it for batch stitching.
I got an idea that was so simple, that I had to buy a Nodal Ninja 5 with the R-D16 rotator to try it out, and I am happy to say that it works like a charm.
The details on the procedure are described here:
mejiatryti.com/Panoramas/Nodal-Ninja-5-batch-stit...
An executive summary:
Attach the camera plate loosely to the camera.
Stand the camera on its lens.
Use a machinist square to line the camera plate up with the vertical rail of the square.
Tighten the screw.
Done! With perfection!
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 595
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 9 Jul 2009 at 20:06 GMT
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Hi Oyvind,
We wanted to keep the cost down and appeal more to the masses. So we do not officially claim repeatable results for those seeking to do batch stitching using the products presented to market to date. Apparently some customers, such as yourself, are able to do so if you can mount your camera/lens in a repeatable fashion. It does show the quality and precision capability of new "Ultimate Line" of Fanotec CNC machined products.
thx for sharing.
Cheers Bill
ps - it would great if you would post this in our forum as well.
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Tim Eastman
Posts: 171
Location:
Registered: 15 Nov 2006
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 9 Jul 2009 at 23:01 GMT
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The machinist square method works, but it seems like a lot of set up and one more impediment.
Try the Arca type quick release plate that Nick is selling. With a stop on the camera plate you should be able to get repeatable results, as the plate and clamp line the camera up in the same position. I use a mark etched into my plate to line up with a mark on the clamp. Plus, if you use a tripod regularly you will appreciate the ease of use and think of threading the camera on as rather primitive!
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DennisS
Posts: 1211
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 10 Jul 2009 at 3:05 GMT
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I have one of the Nodal Ninja R1 heads. The concept of clamping the lens, not the camera is such a no brainer. I suggested that Fanotec develop a way to use the clamping method of the R1 on the NN3 and such. The response was that doing something like that would offer way too many choices in an already confusing array of choices. I tend to agree. Those of us who have been doing this for a while know what we want. Newbees need more help when more choices are made available.
Seems to me that adapting the lens/ Arca clamp to any pano head would be a huge step forward. Get rid of screwing the camera to the pano head and replace it with mounting the lens on the pano head.
This would add to the repeatability of mounting the camera to any pano head and help eliminate 1 source of error when trying to do batch stitching.
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Oyvind Tryti
Posts: 25
Location: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 14 May 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 10 Jul 2009 at 19:58 GMT
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Tim Eastman -
Attaching the camera plate is only done once for a photo session, before I leave home. I would not normally mix creating panoramas and ordinary photo using the tripod in the same session. So it is really only a setup done at home before going out to photograph.
The Arca type quick release plate would unfortunately not help me, since my ball head is a Manfrotto not compatible with the Arca plate. I would have to take the plate off in order to attach the Manfrotto plate for ordinary tripod photography. In any case, the Arca plate would also need exact positioning on the camera for batch stitching. The machinist square trick would work for either plate.
The assembled NN5 is too bulky for my camera bag. When a location has been selected to create a panorama, the tripod is set up. The vertical/upper arm of the NN5 is attached to the lower arm. The head is attached to the tripod (using a quick release plate, of course), and the head is leveled. The upper rail is set horizontal for the first row of images, and the camera is then screwed on. I find that the time spent on this last step, even if it is primitive, is a fairly small part of the total time used setting up the camera.
DennisS -
A clamp for the lens would of course be preferrable. But the NN5 lends itself to high resolution panoramas using longer focal lengths. A clamp would be needed for each lens used - providing of course that a clamp can be attached to the lens at all. But then again - trying to batch stich using longer focal lengths may be a little optimistic.
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Oyvind Tryti
Posts: 25
Location: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 14 May 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 10 Jul 2009 at 21:01 GMT
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Bill, I tried to register on your forum. But you seem to have a bug in the register process.
First attemt with the user name 'Tryti' resulted in following message:
The username you tried to use contains the reserved name 'i'. Please try another username.
The second attempt was with 'Oyvind Tryti', same as on this forum. This time the message was:
The username you tried to use contains the reserved name 'd'. Please try another username.
It seems that the register process will take the last letter of the first word (name) and determine that it is a reserved name.
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Tactus 360
Posts: 1228
Location: Tynset, Norway
Registered: 2 Sep 2010
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 29 Jul 2009 at 16:15 GMT
updated: 2 Sep 2010 at 20:27 GMT
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Øyvind, I had the same problem. Gave up in the end.
Sorry NN, wonderful products, but the forum . . .
Kanskje vi skal ha en norsk forum???
Jon
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Tim Eastman
Posts: 126
Location:
Registered: 13 Nov 2006
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 29 Jul 2009 at 17:56 GMT
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Oyvind:
I think the bottom arm on the NN5 is longer than the NN3, long enough that you could attach a Manfrotto clamp to the upper arm. If you can make a plate that keys into the channel in the upper arm and also keys into the clamp you can set it up so that when you clamp in your camera it will be in the same position every time, no need to adjust, assuming your plate is firmly attached and will not rotate. The advantage of camera specific plates such as those from Kirk is that they will not rotate, but I don't know if Manfrotto makes them. Then your work flow would be: Set up NN5, attach camera, level NN5, shoot! If your budget allows it would be worth considering and allow you to use the NN5 in more places. With my setup I frequently get the " Too good to be true " message in PTGui.
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Gandalf2003
Posts: 31
Location: France
Registered: 28 Nov 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 6:33 GMT
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Hi guys,
Is there a big difference in stability between the two quick release systems that are available at Nodal Ninja ?
I mean between the standard one at 39$95 and the Arca Swiss compatible one.
Gandalf
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Oyvind Tryti
Posts: 25
Location: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 14 May 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 18:57 GMT
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mejiatryti.com/Panoramas/Nodal-Ninja-5-batch-stit... has been updated with a custom made alignment tool.
Tim:
I have a Manfrotto clamp that could have been suitable if it hadn't been for the security lock handle that protudes below the plate. A spacer must be placed between the plate and the rail, but then the attachment screw won't be long enough.
It must be possible to move the plate. My main lens is a 15 mm, but I also have an 8 mm, which must be positioned 10 mm further along the rail. I also use a 24 mm, which happens to be the same distance as the 15 mm.
The purpose of template stiching is that there should be no need to generate control points. When you get 'Too good to be true' messages from PTGui, that means that you have created control points, you are not using a template.
This message says that the entry pupil of the lens is positioned correctly - if the camera is tilted slightly differently from one panorama to the next because of the imperfection of the mounting plate, it will not make much impact on the quality of the panorama, but batch stiching will not be possible.
I use mainly a 5DII with a EF 15/2.8 fisheye. This produces a panorama that is 13920 pixels wide, and I typically get average control point distance of 1.5, and maximum around 4-5 pixels.
A few panoramas with this setup can be seen here: mejiatryti.com/Vadstena/
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John Houghton
Posts: 3412
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 19:52 GMT
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Oyvind Tryti said: When you get 'Too good to be true' messages from PTGui, that means that you have created control points, you are not using a template.
There's no reason why you should not use a template and assign some control points. By optimizing only y,p,r parameters you can fine tune the image positions so that the images align more accurately. Only a couple of control points per overlap are needed as a minimum, since the lens parameters are already supplied by the template. Results ought to be comparable with true template stitching - possibly better.
John
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Oyvind Tryti
Posts: 25
Location: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 14 May 2007
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Re: Batch stitching with the Nodal Ninja 5
Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 20:32 GMT
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Yes, of course, John.
My current template is not quite exact - the stiches are good if I don't include the nadir, but there are small errors in the seams if I include the nadir. So I add control points, and the result is good.
My assumption was that Tim is not using templates (he doesn't say), and I tried to emphasise the point of template stiching vs. control point generation.
I find templates very useful even if they are not exact enough for stiching on their own. There are many occasions where no control points can be found between images (zenith with partly low and featureless horizon), and the template makes aligning the images a snap. And in the overlaps where there are no details to create control points on, there is no need for exact alignment either.
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