jimt
Posts: 2
Location:
Registered: 27 Apr 2008
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hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 15:08 GMT
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Hi All...
this might not be the best forum to post this as it has nothing to do with pano's...but this is the largest group of real estate photographers that i know, so im asking anyway!!
I am having "hit or miss" results with Photomatix Pro and HDRI software. Some results are good...others just look fake and processed with pastel colors or the colors are way over saturated. A recent new development is a "haze" that occurs in some areas of the shot. Of course, noise is also an issue. I try to use tone mapping, but have also tried exposure blending. My issue with exposure blending is that to get the interior propery exposed, the windows are way blown out.
I have done many searches on the net (including Photomatix's site) and can find tons of info on nature and outdoor HDRs, but very little on interiors. Do you guys have any suggestions?
I believe i have the basics in order:
im shooting with a Canon 40d, sigma 10-22, RAW, Manfrotto tripod, cable release. I meter the highs and lows and then start at the high, drop two shutter speeds until i reach the low. Sometimes this ends up being 8 or 9 images.
Have you guys encountered similar issues...if so, how did you resolve them. Right now, my competition is delivering clear bright interior images with excellent visibility through the windows. Im assuming HDR is the best way to properly expose the indoors while not blowing out the view thru the windows??
I emailed photomatix a similar question...if they have anything interesting to say i will pass it on.
thanks...
Jim
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 720
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 15:50 GMT
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Jim
The haze comes from high contrast scenes (very bright window(s) in a normally lighted or dark room). Open the image in Photoshop and increase the Contrast a little will usually eliminate this.
If the colors are too intense, you can lower the Color Saturation in Tone Mapping or lower the Saturation in Photoshop. You can also lower the Strength or Luminosity to do the same thing.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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jimt
Posts: 2
Location:
Registered: 27 Apr 2008
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 16:19 GMT
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thanks Doug...i have tried that, but the problem i have is that the haze is only in certain areas.. and i have to add contrast globally and make the overall image too contrasty ...unless i create a mask and then apply the contrast to the effected area only. Its just another step that is keeping me up late at night.
On the saturation item...i should have mentioned that once again, its not across the entire image. For instance a brown table may look to have an orangey tone to it, and then i need to go around and select the table and all its details in photoshop to pull the orange tone out without effecting the rest of the image.
obviously every shot has different lighting etc...which means a lot of tweaking and adjusting with each image in photomatix....and then i end up having to do the fine tuning in photoshop.
Im looking for the holy grail where i can shoot fewer shots, process them less, get the IQ up and have more time for a few beers at night...
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Matt Rogers
[360 Precision]
Posts: 209
Location: Oxford UK, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 16:20 GMT
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jimt said: Right now, my competition is delivering clear bright interior images with excellent visibility through the windows. Im assuming HDR is the best way to properly expose the indoors while not blowing out the view thru the windows??
I emailed photomatix a similar question...if they have anything interesting to say i will pass it on.
thanks...
Jim
I bet you your competitors images have nothing to do with HDR but sophisticated light systems and techniques. They probably have years and years of experience and have mastered techniques far more useful than software based HDR.
One other point, if you're taking 8-9 photos for an interior HDR you're doing something wrong. You simply do not need that many exposures, even if the sun itself is visible through the windows.
I have no idea how much experience you have but I do know that a large percentage 'virtual tour' photographers simple don't have the skills that high end specialist property photographers have. And just learning "HDR" won't get you to their level.
Matt
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Matt Rogers
[360 Precision]
Posts: 209
Location: Oxford UK, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 16:22 GMT
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jimt said: obviously every shot has different lighting etc...which means a lot of tweaking and adjusting with each image in photomatix....and then i end up having to do the fine tuning in photoshop.
Im looking for the holy grail where i can shoot fewer shots, process them less, get the IQ up and have more time for a few beers at night...
Well if you want really high-end results there's no option but to put in the time post processing or take the time so set-up proper lighting on site. Either way high-end results don't come quick or cheap.
Matt
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tturner
Posts: 81
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Registered: 28 May 2006
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 16:53 GMT
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jimt,
Could you post a link to your work and your competition so we might see what you are talking about and what techniques your competitor is using.
Thanks,
TTurner
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 720
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 18:02 GMT
updated: 7 Jul 2008 at 18:04 GMT
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Jim
I've noticed that Photomatix does over-saturate Red and Orange, but have never had a problem with globally lowering the Color Saturation making the other colors worse than the over-Saturated color looked.
Lowering the Saturation of White, Black, Grey and Brown just isn't a big deal
Matt may be right, that your competition is using flood lights to balance the amount of light in the room a little more with the lighting outside the windows.
I use a reflector below the camera to bounce some of the bright light from the windows back into the room.
The difference may be how much your competition is charging; when there's more money to work with, you can spend more time and use more equipment to produce better photos.
I charge more than any other "Real Estate Photographer" in Albuquerque for Still Photos of homes, but there are many photographers in town who are better than me, they just don't much "Realtor" work. I only charge US$69 while they charge US$200 to US$300. So there's a limit to how much time and effort I'll put into the photos.
Just for reference, I have more work than I can keep up with and and am usually have a backlog of 1 to 2 weeks of work ordered.
The "holy grail" you're looking for probably doesn't exist. The better you want the photos, the more shots you'll need and the more processing it will take. Plus lots & lots of practice
Its also possible your competiton is using something like a Fujifilm camera with their SuperCCD SR Pro sensor that simply has more Dynamic Range than other sensors to begin with
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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gus
Posts: 382
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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ebig
Posts: 144
Location: Haiku, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 21 May 2007
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 7 Jul 2008 at 19:04 GMT
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Naturally, there are any options to capturing an expanded dynamic range, such as:
Shooting- Use a WA(diffused)fill-flash 2-3 stops under. (or floods or mirrors as mentioned elsewhere.)
Use 1 Raw shot, processed a few stops apart
Use multiple shots, pick the ones with least artifacts.
Processing - Pre-process shots before blending.
IE. Use Highlights & Shadows, PS.
But if you have probs w/Photomatrix, you may need to spend more time with the program. There are many modes, options and adjustments for each, from a simple averaging to a enhanced image tonemap. You are in control.
Noise can come from too much enhancement of shadows on an underexposure.
Without seeing your examples, only general suggestions are possible.
Regards
Ed
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Laszlo
Posts: 12
Location: Malden, United States
Registered: 29 Feb 2008
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 720
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 8 Jul 2008 at 17:00 GMT
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Jim
One thing I wanted to point out...
You don't have to be a better photographer than other virtual tour providers and photographers, you have to be better than the Realtors.
I often find myself wishing a shoot had come out better, until I look a the photos the Realtor has in the Multiple Listing Service. I can load photos directly into the MLS and often have to remove those the Realtor used until I could shoot the house. There's a head & shoulders difference between my worst work and most of their best work.
While I'm always trying to improve my photo product by looking at the professional competition, they don't pay me. All you have to do is convince Realtors that your work is better than what they do and is work the investment.
One thing I do that has become really popular with my customers is the "thumbnail" sheets I provide. The Thumbnails are large, 8 photos to an 8.5x11" page, on Glossy Photo Paper. It make a great "listing tool" for them to take to their next listing presentation that their competition won't have.
So just keep praticing with Photomatix and experimenting with how you shoot the source photos
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Imaging Luminary
Posts: 2
Location: United States
Registered: 2 Aug 2008
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mediavets
Posts: 420
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Imaging Luminary
Posts: 2
Location: United States
Registered: 2 Aug 2008
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Re: hdr help
Posted: 3 Aug 2008 at 13:53 GMT
updated: 3 Aug 2008 at 14:05 GMT
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Community Edition has the same functions other than output size. Currently we do not have a trial version for Standard Edition but you can email us for a refund if you really don't like your purchase. We are here to promote HDR tonemapping to mainstream; we are not here to make a quick buck and the current price tag also shows that.
Once you have the Standard Edition you will notice the tonemapping speed is often 5 to 10 times compared to our competitor. You can get more things done in a short period of time!
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