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Thread: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5

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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 13:49 GMT
updated: 26 Aug 2012 at 13:50 GMT
Hello,

The pictures in the zip file below will show you what seems to me to be the best No Parallax Point (Least Parallax Point) settings for a Canon 5D mark2 used with a Canon EF 8-15 mm on a Nodal Ninja NN5 on 12 mm...

The pano is shot with 4 shots around at -5 (this allows stitching without a zenith hole with a good amount of cropping) and 1 nadir shot...

I hope this information will be of use to (unexperienced) members...As always it is the best to test it also yourself...

Cheers,
Burak

ge.tt/52pE6cM/v/0
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Smooth

Posts: 4258
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 15:49 GMT
Mate,

There is no way this is correct. The camera/lens is way too far back on the upper rail and you would be shooting +5 not -5 degrees to close the Zenith.

Before sharing your findings it is best to have them confirmed by experienced users. At the very least provide a set of images shot with these settings.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 17:05 GMT
I agree about the pitch of the camera: +5 is needed, not -5. In any case, if you are going to shoot a nadir, pitching the camera down for the horizontal shots serves no useful purpose. The upper rail setting of 10.5cm is not unreasonable. I just did a quick test and found it to be 10.3cm.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4258
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 17:29 GMT

John Houghton said:

The upper rail setting of 10.5cm is not unreasonable. I just did a quick test and found it to be 10.3cm.
Fair call!
I had pull my notes and had it down at 76mm. But then I read I had taken the measurement to the "front edge" of a Nodal Ninja Quick release because it doesn't have a marked centerline. Also then noted it was with a battery grip which displaces the camera mount.

All that said, images to test stitch and confirm would have been preferable. 3.30am must sleep now....

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 19:23 GMT
updated: 26 Aug 2012 at 19:36 GMT
Oopss...Sorry, of course it should be +5!...I don't say this is the NPP settings, I just say it is the best I have found out so far...I tested in a very narrow place for maximum parallax...The shots and the resulting pano are in the zip file below ( created in PTGUI pro, the control points have been corrected, nadir shot was hand held and put at place by using viewpoint correction)...

ge.tt/4wJDlcM/v/0

Burak
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 22:14 GMT
The setup seems quite decent, but there is some parallax visible in the mirror and also at the side of a doorway. And this one caused a small visible stitching error:



I'd like to see chromatic aberration corrected in your test images too.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4258
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:54 GMT
I took the time to download and stitch your images like John did. While John finds your set up "decent" I feel you could and should improve the upper rail position.

You will possibly find a more accurate position using the "Grid" method. See www.rosaurophotography.com/html/technical7.html or possibly my method www.easypano.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?...

You are within tolerable limits but your images do not "fall" together as they should if you have found the NPP. You should get a maximum control point distance of less than <5 after removal of worst and it is not uncommon to have less than <3. The area you shot this panorama is quite a good place to perfect your NPP.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 21:03 GMT
updated: 27 Aug 2012 at 21:04 GMT
John, Smooth; thank you very much for taking time...I appreciate it highly...John I read just today how to remove CA properly in Adobe Camera Raw...My source images will in future be like the image below:

ge.tt/6awGkgM/v/0?c

Smooth thank you very much for the links...Tomorrow I'll look for something which I can use as a grid in the shops and the first thing I'll do is finding out the exact NPP...I'd love to read your article too but the link you've provided seems to be just to the forum and not to a specific article...And thanks for the numbers for the max. CP distance...

Regards
Burak
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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 9:01 GMT
I've experimented with the upper rail settings at 101,102,103,104,105 and 106 mm...The best results are at -as John has already found out- at 103 mm...It was interesting to see that when one shoots with he same settings and without moving the tripod later on in stitching in PTGUI one gets different CP distances for the different sets of shots...So shooting at the NPP (for example at 103 mm) doesn't guarantee a perfect stitched image...I had in one set of pictures an averag. CP dist. of 0,89 and max. of 1,95; in another set aver.1,77, max. 6,74...Both shot from the same spot with the same panohead settings...

ge.tt/4NAG2mM?c
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Smooth

Posts: 4258
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 10:11 GMT
Burak,

Without seeing your .pts project file it is hard to say what is right and what is wrong. But based on this latest set of images you are pretty close to the NPP. I would say looking at this set it is your lower rail setting that is marginally out. Because of a small stitching error.

You can download my project file from here: www.omnipix.net/temp/smooth-4-burak_panorama.pts

Your images stitched "automatically" with a maximum error of 1.71 and this improved with some manual assigning as you can see.



What is important is setting the "crop circle" and making sure you have a good spread of control points from top to bottom of the image pairs. Studying my .pts file with your set of images should give you some clues.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 12:42 GMT

Smooth said:

What is important is setting the "crop circle"

In the context of this thread, setting the crop circle is not at all critical. It's really only a mask. It does affect the fov and therefore the lens parameters, but the alignment ends up the same regardless.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4258
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 12:58 GMT

John Houghton said:

Smooth said:

What is important is setting the "crop circle"
In the context of this thread, setting the crop circle is not at all critical. It's really only a mask. It does affect the fov and therefore the lens parameters, but the alignment ends up the same regardless.

John
Sorry John, but I have to disagree. By limiting the crop circle from it's maximum you are in effect limiting the spread of automatic control points. Having the crop circle correctly set allows automatic control point placement across the image pairs (from top to bottom) giving a better more consistent spread and increasing the likelihood of a more successful stitch.

At least my tests show this and is something I have always taught to my clients.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3113
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 13:06 GMT
Setting the correct crop circle helps.

cheers,
Dorin
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 13:20 GMT

burake said:

It was interesting to see that when one shoots with he same settings and without moving the tripod later on in stitching in PTGUI one gets different CP distances for the different sets of shots...So shooting at the NPP (for example at 103 mm) doesn't guarantee a perfect stitched image...

You must always remember that for fisheye lenses, you cannot eliminate parallax completely over the whole of the areas where the images overlap. Stitching perfection therefore cannot be guaranteed. Depending on where individual control points are positioned, they may or may not be in places where parallax is significant. So the optimization results are going to vary according to where the control point generator places the points.

John
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3113
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: LPP settings 5D Mark2/Canon 8-15 mm/NN5
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 14:20 GMT
updated: 29 Aug 2012 at 14:29 GMT
I'd like to add something here, as I have some experience in this.

One can have almost perfect stitch if template is used properly and each image is patched with an alpha channel according with shooting method and of course with correct NPP setings (or better I call it NPA, non parallax area)
i.e. for 6 around there are speciffic both rail seting and alpha channel, and for 4 around another pair of rail setting and alpha channel.

I suggest to Jost to add to PTgui along with lens parameters in database also the NPA footprint in image , a simple 2 bit image will be ok.
I'm not talking about red/green masks here, instead is about an area in the image taken with a fish eye lens where, according with shooting method around, there will be less parallax, and where the CP to be generated.

The ways to batch add the same desired alpha channel to images are different from software to software. I'm using a simple selfwritten app, and I can't guide, but maybe others to guide how to do that with Gimp or Photoshop.

cheers,
Dorin
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