arampan
Posts: 197
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Registered: 9 Oct 2005
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US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 9:42 GMT
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I recently saw IVRPA posting about some company (Tour Technology Systems, LLC) going after people using and producing Virtual Tours. Anyone had experience and is it something we need to worry about?
EXTRACTED FROM IVRPA
•They own the technology for producing and displaying 360 spherical images. (Although that hasn't stopped them from going after those displaying 360 cylindrical images.)
•The use of two or more fish eye images to create a 360 spherical image. (In particular two fish eye images back to back although they also claim it applies to any number of images created by any kind of lens.)
•Assembly, storage and display of images in digital form, on a computer.
•Use of cube faces in 360 spherical images. (Although that hasn't stopped them from claiming images stored in any other format infringe on their patent.)
•In addition they claim to own the idea of hotspots, of linking individual 360 images to produce a tour, even the idea of manipulating an image (especially using a mouse) to look around, navigate, even zoom in and out.... it goes on and on.
Since all this existed, was in common enough use, was even covered by existing patents before they applied for their patent it almost looks like they just copied what already existed, put it on paper claiming they invented it and submitted it for a patent never acknowledging any existing 360 technology (known as prior art). The patent especially copies what already existed in Ford Oxxal's IPix patents and Apple's QuickTime patents. These and many other patents preceded the '400 patent by years. Yet the Patent Office never noticed them much less considered them as prior art that would have caused rejection of the '400 patent. So the patent was granted.
An outfit called Tour Technology Systems, LLC (TTS) now owns the patent and is using it to demand money from our clients including hotels, builders, realtors, media companies, anybody who uses 360 images and tours. TTS's lawyer sends them a letter saying their use of 360 virtual tours infringes TTS's patent and demands significant money for their continued use or they will take legal action.
Clients freak out. It is, after all, a real patent. Even when clients learn that they are protected, for instance IPix customers are protected by the IPix patent, it doesn't matter. The cost of defending against the '400 patent is too great. Sometimes they get mad at us (the photographers and tour producers) for putting them in this situation. Usually they take down the tours rather than pay the ransom and swear never to use 360 VR again. And they often tell others in their industry to do the same lest they get sued. One photographer I know lost a client worth $50,000 because of this.
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jannefoo
Posts: 59
Location: Finland
Registered: 3 Jun 2009
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 11:49 GMT
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Somebody should hint about this to EFF's Patent Busting project.
w2.eff.org/patent/
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Vilmer
Posts: 451
Location: Argentina
Registered: 23 May 2007
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 13:09 GMT
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I wonder if they already sued Google.
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 13:25 GMT
updated: 27 Apr 2011 at 13:26 GMT
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This is more than a year old stuff.
I have not heard anything about what happened later though.
And you should have no fear Arampan. This is just US problems.
Hans
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DemonDuck
Posts: 312
Location:
Registered: 10 Mar 2011
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 17:00 GMT
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It's just one of those zombie myths that don't make any sense and just keep going...
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 17:34 GMT
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Unfortunately in this case it is a real threat.
I just got an update and it looks like this patent holder continues to threat people through a very well known patent lawyer.
Of course this can only happen in a country like USA.
In Europe no lawyer would even touch a case like this as it is so obvious that the patent is not valid.
Hans
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 20:53 GMT
updated: 27 Apr 2011 at 20:54 GMT
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Hans
Accordig to your update...
Who's been threatened, specific names?
Who's the well known patent lawyer?
I looked up the patent number, it was originally filed by someone from Bucharest, Romania
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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arampan
Posts: 197
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Registered: 9 Oct 2005
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 21:37 GMT
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I'm not familiar with the way this U.S. patent thing works. So far this is the first i've heard of it. So am I right to say that...
1. This patent is for the concept of Virtual Tours and not because they have actually developed any technology for Virtual Tours
2. This applies only to the U.S. and they can't harrass people outside of the U.S. so overseas photographers and their customers are safe?
3. The good people at PTGUI, Pano2VR, 3DVista, Easypano, etc... etc... are also safe?
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Aaron Spence
Posts: 121
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Registered: 29 Sep 2005
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 22:12 GMT
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At present this is mainly a USA problem, but it is a serious issue. I'm not directly affected in Australia but I've donated a small amount.
When our fellow pano photographers are attacked via highly unethical means I believe we should all stand up and be counted, even if we aren't in the firing line.
If we are successful then future patent trolls will think twice before attacking our industry.
Aaron Spence.
panedia.com
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bigwade
Posts: 826
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 22:32 GMT
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Well, some Yank bought the "idea" from some Romanian people in 2004..
Now is time to cash, haha !
This Wilson, Jr;Richard, so called owner, hired an ass-lawyer.
What's the point ?
It's a shame this lawyer has time to contact clients and does.
It's a shame that that disturbs client contact for panoramic photographers.
But don't worry, this is 2009 news when you google
Good luck in the US, No change this would be a problem in EU.
[img][/img]
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DennisS
Posts: 1292
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 22:33 GMT
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Nobody is ever safe from lawyers in the US. They can take anyone to court without worrying about cost. We do not have "looser pays". Anyone can sue anyone else for any reason at any time without worring about weather or not they win. We tried to get "looser pays" implimented here, but guess who killed it? Yup, freakng Lawyers.
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DemonDuck
Posts: 312
Location:
Registered: 10 Mar 2011
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 23:40 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: This started over a year ago., I am surprised you do not know or have been attacked.
ivrpa.org/patent
The lawyer is this guy.
www.handalglobal.com/the-team/anthony-h-handal/
Virtual Tour Group is one of the companies who is involved but what the lawyer does is he attack the Hotels and other client who of course have no idea of what it is about and get afraid of even using 360's.
groups.google.com/group/ivrpa/browse_thread/threa...#
Hans
And a year ago you wrote:
I have posted some info about this patent which I think you should
read at the Member IVRPA Forum.
The whole patent seems to be a complete joke to me and might not even
been filed in a legal way from the beginning.
Hans
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 1:32 GMT
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Hans
Who says Anthony Handal is the lawyer behind these letters?
And who has been sent letter, actual names of businesses using virtual tours that got a letter?
There's no mention of the company or the patent in any news stories and what Virtual Tour Group says happened makes no sense, nobody got any money.
Even if they did, they got so little a guy like Handal who says he has handled cases with "$2 Billion at risk" would be unlikely to touch the case.
Why would they go after individual hotels when there are major hotel corporations like Hilton, Starwood and IHG with their recent 3500+ tour shoot supoosedly violating the patent.
Or Expedia, Travelocity and Orbits using hundreds if not thousands of tours.
Or Photowebusa, VRX, VFM/Leoonardo and ICEPortal producing and hosting thousands of tours.
If the patent is valid, there are much more profiable defendants than a few individual hotels mentioned in the posts.
And I notice almost all the threads are started by Maz Hobbi with Virtual Tour Group.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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John Hawkins
Posts: 71
Location: Las Vegas, NV, United States
Registered: 11 Dec 2006
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Re: US Patent 6,754,400 - Infringing Virtual Tour Patents
Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 2:20 GMT
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Why don't PTGui or Easypano put up the money to fight this. They certainly make enough money on their software to pay to defend their programs.
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