David Tan
Posts: 155
Location: Kualalumpur, Malaysia
Registered: 31 Mar 2010
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Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 3:33 GMT
updated: 25 Aug 2010 at 3:34 GMT
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I have been using 360precision Absolute with Sigma 8mm f3.5 and Canon 400D and now I am thinking about upgrading to Canon 7D with the same lens but then, I have to order the new 360precision Absolute arm that will fit the new camera.
So, instead of buying the new arm everytime I change the camera (same lens), I am thinking about buying this:
store.nodalninja.com/products/NN-Ultimate-R1-Adju...
Anyone has ever used the NN Ultimate with the Ring Clam?
Any specific pros and cons of NN Ultimate based on your real-world experience of actually using it?
What's your advice for someone who's considering of buying one? Thanks
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 5:59 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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I have NN R1, and simply love it. Well, there are many reasons for loving it of course.
Pros:
1. small
2. lightweight
3. easy to handle
4. fast setup
5. leaving the lens attached to the head/tripod while switching to another lens for different shooting is fast
6. changing to another camera using the same lens is equally fast and painless
7. very consistent stitching results
8. fast operation (I use it with Olympus E-3 and E-520) for 6 around tilted -10° and.....
between pro and con we have "neutral"
1. one up shot is not as fast, but with my method it is absolutely within acceptable limits. I drop the camera 90°back for the zenith shot. Doing that, the NPP is moved 80mm horizontally and 65mm vertically (back and down).
Not a problem .... I raise the center column of the tripod 80mm, put a pin through it (it acts as a height-lock for the exact needed height adjustment), then drag the tripod the 65mm (approximately) forward, to make up for the backwards move of the camera.
This procedure for the zenith shot takes around 15-20 seconds.
Cons:
1. I wish the Ultimate series had existed when I first started out in the pano field
2. Nadir shot is not easy to do with it, but with my equipment I can still do it properly, but it does require a minute or so to do... sometimes 2.
I tilt the 3-way head so that the camera faces the floor. This is a massive change to the NPP from the already shot panorama: It moves 235mm forwards (over 9 inches) and is lowered 275mm (almost 11 inches). I compensate for this movement by raising the center column as needed, using the same method as before with the locking pin, and move the tripod backwards to reposition it correctly.
Not really a con in my situation, since I am used to shooting 30+ photos for a single pano, and am not pressed to death time wise for each pano, but it might be a drawback for people who need the nadir shot, and who do not have the same equipment as I have, that allows for the above mentioned moves with center column and 3-way head tilting.
Default shooting position -10°:
Closeup view of default position:
Zenith shot position:
Closeup view of zenith shot position:
Nadir shot position:
Closeup view of nadir shot position:
Height locking "mechanism"... a pin through the center column:
All in all: Extremely good equipment that will make life a lot easier.
I hope that my way to capture zenith and nadir can help others. I would like to shoot 60° up reather than the 90°, so that empty white ceilings can be replaced with parts of walls and other things that give more control points, but for that I need to have a special bracket made... I improvised one (don't have access to many tools or materials)... and it can be done, but I haven't made it/had it made yet. The one I did was too difficult to put on and take off to be worth the bother.
Trausti
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DennisS
Posts: 1210
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:05 GMT
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David,
The R1 is good if you are going to change lenses a lot and use different tilt angles. If you are going to stick with 1 lens, there are several people here who could tell you what tilt angle to use. The R10 can be orderd at a fixed angle for a lot less money. When you change lenses, you might need to get a new lens ring clamp. If you change bodies, you should not need to get any new hardware.
I have used the R10 for well over a year now and have shot hundreads of panoramas with it. The anodizing is wearing off. It has never let me down. The lens mounts in the exact same position over and over again.
I like the lens ring clamp system so much that I adapted my pano head to use a ring mount and eliminate the upper arm (sort of). It is a great clamping system.
The biggest con is that it is not designed to pivot up for a Zenith shot or pivot down for a Nadir shot while maintaining your NPP. With the proper lens, you can tilt up 5 degrees or so to eliminate the Zenith shot. You are left with a hand held Nadir shot to patch the hole.
The ultimate line of pano heads are designed for a specific way of shooting panoramas. If you want to easily pivot up or down while maintaining your NPP, get a NN3/5 series pano head.
Dennis
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David Tan
Posts: 155
Location: Kualalumpur, Malaysia
Registered: 31 Mar 2010
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:09 GMT
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Thanks so much Trausti for your complete information and also for your demonstration pictures that really help me to understand more about operating NN Ultimate.
I am still studying your explanation about the zenith and nadir. Maybe I will ask questions later about your techniques. Once again, those pictures are really helping my limited visualization.
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DennisS
Posts: 1210
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:21 GMT
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Trausti,
Although I can apreciate thinking outside the box (and boy, does your example think outside the box), what does your modifications get you that a NN3/5 with the Nadir swivel doesn't? Seems that when you take into account the gynmastics that need to be done with your set up vs the gymnastics needed with the Nadir swivel, the NN3/5 looks like a much better solution. Your answer will probably be something like "I did it because I could." That would be a totally acceptable answer.
Dennis
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DorinDXN
Posts: 2802
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:22 GMT
updated: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:25 GMT
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DennisS said: ..
The anodizing is wearing off. It has never let me down.
..
Nick should do something with the anodizing, apart from that the R1, I'm using one, is highly reccomended.
I said that about anodizing because I had 2 monopods, quite cheap actually, I'm using for my modular setup, the anodizing is very strong on these, after more of 1 year of using is just like new, and that's is after periodically in portion of those I have some branding with www.livepanoramas.com sticked on them and at one or two moths those big labels become scratchy(bit uggly or so) and I have to remove them using not a quite gentle procedure, even using water and a cleanning mixture, the adesive is quite strong, I tell you that after several procedures of removal the anodizing has no sign in those portions at all is like new.
cheers,
Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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David Tan
Posts: 155
Location: Kualalumpur, Malaysia
Registered: 31 Mar 2010
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:30 GMT
updated: 25 Aug 2010 at 7:36 GMT
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Thanks Dennis for your sharing.
DennisS said: With the proper lens, you can tilt up 5 degrees or so to eliminate the Zenith shot. You are left with a hand held Nadir shot to patch the hole.
I like this solution better!
That means, with Sigma 8mm f3.5, I only need to take 4 shots around and if I want to patch the nadir, then I simply use this technique: (Will this work perfectly?)
But if I just want to put the nadir cap (for logo) without time-consuming patching then with 5 degrees tilt upward, I only need to take 4 shots around to make 360x180 spherical pano. Am I right that we need only 4 shots around if we intend to put a nadir cap for logo? But how large is the nadir black hole that is produced by 5 degrees tilt upward? Any example?
DennisS said: If you want to easily pivot up or down while maintaining your NPP, get a NN3/5 series pano head. Dennis
Nobody likes stitching error because it's taking too much time to fix.
I will go with the equipment that gives the least possibility of stitching error.
When it comes to delivering consistent results without stitching error, who is the winner? Ultimate or NN3/5?
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Smooth
Posts: 3729
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 8:53 GMT
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The first to release the "Ring Grip" for doing panoramas was Agnos www.agnos.com with the RingT range which allows it to be used on a simple rotator or together with the MrotatorT series which allow the ring to tilt and maintain the NPP.
Years later 360P and NN released there variants with the Nodal Ninja Ultimate being the superior of them all at this stage but with the limitation of not being able to maintain the NPP through -/+90 degrees but this is not a limitation if it is not required.
Obviously the ultimate solution/answer is the yet to be released Nodal Ninja "Modular" Ultimate which was shown at Tuson some time back. This design is pretty much based on the RRS www.reallyrightstuff.com Omnipivot with Arca Swiss mounts and will allow the use of the NN Lens rings in much the same way as the Agnos RingT MrotatorT combination.
The other obvious flaw with the NN R1/10 is the loose untethered angle degree adjustment pin which is easily dropped and lost. This should be tethered like they are on the RD series rotators.
If you know exactly what lens you plan to use and it is suitable it is hard to go past the Nodal Ninja Ultimate R1/10 for overall design.
Regards, Smooth 
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 8:59 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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DennisS said: Your answer will probably be something like "I did it because I could." That would be a totally acceptable answer.
Dennis
Well... I did this before the nadir swivel was made, and it works. The extra time required for the nadir and zenith is minimal on my "time is money" scale, and in most cases I can absolutely live without shooting the Nadir (unless it is one of the special down shots that can not be cloned/patched/capped, since the nadir hole is quite small using my setup:
flashificator.com/1/Diverse/Kitchen1/
...and could be even smaller if I didn't use EZ leveler, and if I also take care of the legs not to be too spread.
David: The nadir hole I have there comes from using Olympus with Zuiko 8mm, which is most likely not a match in the final result with the Sigma 8mm and your camera(s), so do not take that as an indication of how it will look with your camera and lens.
Trausti
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Mark Houston
Posts: 130
Location: Ferndale, Michigan, United States
Registered: 23 Aug 2005
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Mark Houston
Posts: 130
Location: Ferndale, Michigan, United States
Registered: 23 Aug 2005
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 12:05 GMT
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Thanks Trausti.... 
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DennisS
Posts: 1210
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 13:18 GMT
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I like this solution better! David, While this looks good, you are now way off the original position. You would need to raise the column up in order to get the camera back to the same level it was when you took the other photos.
Sounds like you have not yet figured out which lens you are going to use and how you are going to capture your panorama. Once you pick a lens, we can better recommend either the R1 or NN3/5.
Trausti, I figured it was something like that. Gotta go with whatever gets the job done with whatever tools you have at hand. Very creative
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David Tan
Posts: 155
Location: Kualalumpur, Malaysia
Registered: 31 Mar 2010
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 13:31 GMT
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DennisS said: While this looks good, you are now way off the original position. You would need to raise the column up in order to get the camera back to the same level it was when you took the other photos.
I understand what you mean.
DennisS said: Sounds like you have not yet figured out which lens you are going to use and how you are going to capture your panorama. Once you pick a lens, we can better recommend either the R1 or NN3/5.
Yes, I have:
David Tan said: I have been using 360precision Absolute with Sigma 8mm f3.5 and Canon 400D and now I am thinking about upgrading to Canon 7D with the same lens but then, I have to order the new 360precision Absolute arm that will fit the new camera.
I will stick with Sigma 8mm f3.5 lens + Canon 400D or Canon 550D or 7D or maybe later Canon 5D MKII.
So, what's your recommendation for Sigma 8mm f3.5 lens? R1 or NN3/5? Or just stay with my current 360precision Absolute?
Thanks Dennis!
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mediavets
Posts: 1948
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Pros & Cons of Nodal Ninja Ultimate?
Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 13:37 GMT
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David Tan said: So, what's your recommendation for Sigma 8mm f3.5 lens? R1 or NN3/5? Or just stay with my current 360precision Absolute?
Thanks Dennis!
How much will it cost you to upgrade the Absolute each time you change the camera body?
Andrew
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