Ranjan Pano
Posts: 145
Location:
Registered: 20 Jun 2006
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Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 3:30 GMT
updated: 10 Jun 2010 at 3:39 GMT
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I am noticing a change over since the years virtual tours migrated from quicktime/java now to flash, but surprisingly ALL flash tour I play on my computer hogs the CPU to 90-100% almost freezing the computer. I checked up with FF/google chrome & IE, all behave the same.
The specs are as follows, not a slow computer by any means.
Intel C2D 1.86Ghz
8gb DDR2 ram
Nvidia 7600GT card latest nvidia driver
20 inch LCD
1Mbps broadband connection
Its not just my tours but any tour on the web & I find done in flash hogs the cpu, since adobe has taken over this is more noticeable in flash 9-10 (adobe loves to be resource hog)
Quicktime tours of the same image takes up 30-50% CPU within the same browser. The recent open letter from Apple chief mentioned the same for flash & the reason to drop support from Iphone & Ipad.
Is the flash coding done by developers of these tour wrong or the flash as technology doesn't care for clients computer? tours done with FPP,pano2vr & krpano all behave the same with cpu bogging it down.
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 4:44 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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Well, interactive content like panorama tours, does require more processes than simply open up google.com 
But that doesn't mean that things can't be done better.
How would you like sound of a Flash based panorama that runs on 0-2% on the CPU, no matter if it is in windowed or fullscreen mode, moved with the mouse, standing still or on auto rotation?
Sounds too good to be true?
Well, I already have that, and will provide an example pano in the coming days with this new engine, which will eventually replace the current Flash Panorama Player engine when the time is right.
_______________________________
Trausti
flashificator.com/
flashificator.com/forums
flashpanoramas.com/player
flashpanoramas.com/forum
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Raghav
Posts: 42
Location: Visakhapatnam, India
Registered: 6 Jun 2010
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 5:03 GMT
updated: 10 Jun 2010 at 5:05 GMT
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Hi Ranjan,
I was shocked seeing the information posted by you and to check out how much resources these things were gobbling from my system, I tried out on a device at the other end of the spectrum, my Asus Eee Pc netbook with the following specs-
Intel Atom 1.6 GHz, 512 KB Cache
1 GB DDR2 RAM & 11" display
on my wireless internet which gives upto 256 kbps.
The results were surprising  , I am not sure how to compare the two of our results-
When the panorama was static- 15-20% of CPU, about 10-20 processes, 105 MB of RAM
When panorama was panned- 80-90% of CPU, about 60-70 processes, nearly same 105 MB of RAM
I was on Chrome and the panorama was in FPP 
Can anyone derive meaningful conclusion from these results???
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Ranjan Pano
Posts: 145
Location:
Registered: 20 Jun 2006
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 6:15 GMT
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Trausti said: Well, interactive content like panorama tours, does require more processes than simply open up google.com
Well i have seen quite many interactive sites done in flash but they dont go beyond -40-50% cpu, so what is it in panorama that hogs the cpu so much? faulty coding, flash content limits or something else?
see these sites
www.youthedesigner.com/2007/10/29/10-awe-inspirin...
I remember till macromedia was in control most of their software were within 100mb or so as soon it was adobe the same software were 500-800mb packaged as suite, i cant imagine adobe trying to make it a mass medium can not care for the cpu hogging within its application.
Krpano with its fisheye projection though useful on full screen is a recipe for ctrl+alt+delete constant cpu stuck at 100%.
Trausti said: Flash based panorama that runs on 0-2% on the CPU,
too good if that happens you will help a lot in adobe business share & should be rewarded for it, when do we see this product, anytime line?
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 6:47 GMT
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All content with interactive or moving subject in them uses a lot of CPU.
It does not matter if you use Flash, quicktime or windows media.
I just did as demo with a pano in Video Full HD Quality. It uses 104% in Quicktime video and 110% as a FPP Flash panorama.
No real difference.
Size is what matters most for CPU so if you shows videos in any Video player in fullscreen they use almost the same in Flash or Quicktime.
But of course Steve Jobs does not mention this. They just removed all Quicktime Videos from the Apple site and refers you to iTunes for all Movie trailers now.
Hans
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 6:59 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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Panoramas are a different kind of an animal than a "normal" interactive Flash site.
The main difference is the projection and distortion of the images, changing viewing angles etc.
That requires a lot more calculations than a site that simply has plain images in 2D, even if those are moving/fading etc.
This is my guess at the difference being so big.
When you can see it? hmmm... I will have a pano running on the new engine before next Monday.
When will it be seen as a purchasable product? That is a question which I would really like to know the answer to myself.
This is the ONLY flash based panorama player in today's world, capable of being so "kind" to the CPU.
The reward will hopefully come in the form of many more clients who will join now to ensure that the development can continue without hickups, and many more clients once the player replaces the current FPP engine.
Everyone using it for their projects, would of course also be rewarded for having something that doesn't occupy the CPU as massively as current players do.
Visions without actions won't get anyone anywhere.
_______________________________
Trausti
flashificator.com/
flashificator.com/forums
flashpanoramas.com/player
flashpanoramas.com/forum
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Henri Smeets
Posts: 242
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Registered: 28 Nov 2006
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 12:22 GMT
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Trausti, you makes us very curious as to what you have come up with, sounds promising!
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 14:08 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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I know
It will change the face of the Flash based panorama community from what it looks like now.... at least that is what I am sure it will do. I look forward to providing the example... but for that to be made, the programmer needs to build the engine again, and capsule it in the Pano Cocoon protection... we don't really want or need anyone to have access to the code ... which I am sure you all understand.
Here you can see a very crude example, the screen capturing software (Camtasia) is not capable of recording smooth and nice movements... so this will look tacky and ugly like something from last century, while it is smooth and nice on my end.
The player example I do this with is also one of the very first testers, with no zoom or controls or even auto-rotation... but despite all the things that make this completely unscientific, you will be able to verify that it does indeed run very very low on the CPU. It did make one spike to 46% in this test, but that may have been some auto checking in one of the tabs in the other FF window.
Here it is:
flashificator.com/1/Diverse/ThePanoramaPlayerFirs...
There simply isn't any other Flash based player that can do the same.
_______________________________
Trausti
flashificator.com/
flashificator.com/forums
flashpanoramas.com/player
flashpanoramas.com/forum
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Bravo
Posts: 235
Location: Athens, Greece
Registered: 28 Jan 2005
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 16:46 GMT
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Warping and manipulating images takes processing power.
When done in software (like QT or Flash) the cpu provides the necessary processing.
For the cpu load to remain so low I'm guessing that the power comes from another source, probably the gpu (graphics card) and likely takes advantage of Flash 10.x capability to offload processing to the gpu.
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vn2009
Posts: 263
Location: duluth mn, United States
Registered: 24 Sep 2009
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 11 Jun 2010 at 20:05 GMT
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if it is not processed at the cpu is has to be done at the gpu. what graphics card do you have in the computer you used as an example trausti?
has this been tested on low end graphics card?
just showing the cpu usage is not quite enought. 1-3% cpu on a new Intel core I7 and 8gb of ddr3 ram with a nice video card is not going to show as much usage as an old school P4 and 1gb of ddr1 and embedded graphics.
look very promising! i hope you can do what you state but providing us with the full hardware stats of the test pc would be more informative for me.
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 2:42 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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Of course the processes are running in the GPU ... where else would it be
I have tested this on a couple of crappy laptops with standard "office" specs and absolutely not capable of something extraordinary. Both of them behave the same as my main puter and the Mac.
Here the specs form the better one, which I absolutely despise:
HP Pavilion dv4
Vindows Vista Ultimate
Processor: AMD Athlon X2 Dual-Core QL-62 2GHz
Memory: 3 GB
OS Type: 32-bit
Chipset: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
Core Clock: 500 MHz
Memory Clock: 333 MHz
Memory Size: 1406 MB
Any puter adhering to OpenGL v.2.1 or later should be covered.... that means every computer since 2006. The rest will run on the CPU. Once in the CPU, it's "Flash as usual".
Of course, the more processes that are already in the GPU, the more likely it is that the CPU will be accessed for processing things. ... after all the data has to be processed somewhere
But this is undeniably a new path to take, in order to spare computers from being irresponsive due to the CPU work-load.
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fiero
Posts: 332
Location: DevalVR developer, Spain
Registered: 6 Jul 2005
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 12:42 GMT
updated: 12 Jun 2010 at 12:45 GMT
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Ranjan Pano said: I am noticing a change over since the years virtual tours migrated from quicktime/java now to flash, but surprisingly ALL flash tour I play on my computer hogs the CPU to 90-100% almost freezing the computer. I checked up with FF/google chrome & IE, all behave the same.
The specs are as follows, not a slow computer by any means.
Intel C2D 1.86Ghz
8gb DDR2 ram
Nvidia 7600GT card latest nvidia driver
20 inch LCD
1Mbps broadband connection
Its not just my tours but any tour on the web & I find done in flash hogs the cpu, since adobe has taken over this is more noticeable in flash 9-10 (adobe loves to be resource hog)
Quicktime tours of the same image takes up 30-50% CPU within the same browser...
QuickTime and Flash are software renderers, this is, all the work to paint any 3D polygon in the screen is made by the CPU. QuickTime only uses one CPU core to make the work, for this reason it uses not more than 50%. Flash use a multi-core process to make the work faster, and for this reason it uses 90-100% of CPU.
None of these viewers use GPU (at least in the latest official version). You can compare with a hardware accelerated viewer to see the difference, for example FreePV or DevalVR.
If you want to test, open a cubic MOV file with DevalVR, disable the option "Advanced options->Synchronized rendering" (all Flash viewers has this option disabled). Now, if you rotate the panorama, you can see the CPU comsumption is from 0% to 9% and the framerate is 146 FPS (you can see the FPS with www.fraps.com )
regards!
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VRwave
Posts: 108
Location:
Registered: 19 Mar 2006
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 15:28 GMT
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Trausti said: How would you like sound of a Flash based panorama that runs on 0-2% on the CPU
This is the best news I've heard in a while. If you manage to offload most work to the GPU and a get a reliable player this will become THE panorama player everybody will use.
Keep up the good work!
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 16:45 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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VRwave said: ...this will become THE panorama player everybody will use.
Thanks
It was also my conviction right from the start, therefore I got the domain:
ThePanoramaPlayer.com
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panograf
Posts: 38
Location:
Registered: 30 Oct 2004
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Re: Flash really a resource hog??? tours eat 90-100% CPU power
Posted: 13 Jun 2010 at 0:22 GMT
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Darek, who is the developer of the panorama flip book, is also currently making a flash viewer that is not nearly as hungry for CPU power.
activeden.net/item/pano-flip-book-spot-panorama-p...
It will be very exciting to see what comes out of the effort.
Have you Trausti any idea when you go out with your version and with a new GUI? Can not find any video or screenshot of the AIR version on your website and the demo that can be downloaded, is too basic to be convincing.
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