Mr Jones
Posts: 22
Location: Midway USA, United States
Registered: 12 Nov 2009
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PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 17:36 GMT
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Hello again,
I really dig this forum and thank you all for the information you've helped me out with. New questions have been put to me by "the boss" and I'm at a lose for ideas.
As you may know we currently use the P5100 with the FC-E8 lens to do two shot tours. They are small and not scalable.
My job now is to find a replacement for the P5100 that doesn't cost a ton of money and could be used with a three or four shot +1 or +2 software solution. Originally I gave my boss the NN R1, D90, Sigma 8mm solution, but that's out of the budget from what I understand.
Is there some PNS solution that is currently available and manufactured that would produce mid-size to small tours with out using the FC-E8 and has a decent learning curve. I want to make sure I'm telling my boss all the correct info. The issue my boss has is the P5100 is hard to find as is the FC-E8. I guess they are tired of the hunt.
Thanks again for the input.
Jonesy
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DorinDXN
Posts: 2408
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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mediavets
Posts: 1508
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:24 GMT
updated: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:25 GMT
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The only half decent FE conversion lenses for P&S compact cameras are the FC-E8, and the IPIX/Soligor.
Both have been out of production for years but still sought after by some so they are hard to find as you say.
The Nikon P5100 has of course been superceded by the P6000, so again you are unlikely to find one new now.
How many systems are you looking to purchase?
Do you have a max. budget per system?
Dorin's suggestions offer the best bang for your buck IMO, don't forget you'll to a decent tripod too, and then there's the software.
Andrew
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mediavets
Posts: 1508
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:33 GMT
updated: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:37 GMT
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Mr Jones said: As you may know we currently use the P5100 with the FC-E8 lens to do two shot tours. They are small and not scalable.
Jonesy
FWIW that's not the way to do it with this setup. Instead you should zoom in a couple of clicks and shoot 4-around and you'll get a considerably higher resolution pano.
I pointed you to a good article about using such a setup - it appears you didn't bother to read it - I know it's in Italian but Google will do a good enough translation:
www.nital.it/experience/immersiva-p5000.php
But you'll be much better off using a DSLR-based setup, as Dorin suggests, anyway.
Andrew
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Mr Jones
Posts: 22
Location: Midway USA, United States
Registered: 12 Nov 2009
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:58 GMT
updated: 27 Jan 2010 at 18:59 GMT
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Dorin,
Thanks for those links... I'm looking at that lens now.
Andrew,
You are correct I didn't read it and I'm not sure how to translate that article. I apologize for not reading it in the other thread. (translation seperate issue)
As far as number of kits, I'm just going to throw out fifteen to twenty over the next two years.
My boss is getting tired of the time and effort it takes to track down the FC-E8's and the P5100's from either Ebay or vendors selling the refurbished cameras.
The e-mail I sent them was originally for the DSLR set up I've been looking at for a while, but that's too much money. So I get an e-mail back saying it has to be more budget friendly and be available on a constant basis.
I know the FC-E8 is the best lens, I know it will work on the P6000 with the Agnos adapter. It is also a few hundred dollars more and due to be replace since it's coming up on it's second birthday. The PNS solution's will always face this same supply issue because of changing technology and the rarity of the FC-E8 glass.
The only constant, I'm telling my boss the same thing, is the DSLR solution, but again it becomes a money issue.
Can you have your cake and eat it too?
Jonesy
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mediavets
Posts: 1508
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 19:12 GMT
updated: 27 Jan 2010 at 19:14 GMT
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Mr Jones said: The PNS solution's will always face this same supply issue because of changing technology and the rarity of the FC-E8 glass.
Quite correct - it's a non-starter for that number of systems over that time scale. So let's forget an FC-E8 based P&S setup.
The only constant, I'm telling my boss the same thing, is the DSLR solution, but again it becomes a money issue.
I've known bosses who refuse to accept reality too...you have my sympathy.
Can you have your cake and eat it too?
Not in this case I fear. But basing a DSLR-based setup around the low cost Samyang FE is a good start. Used Canon 350D-450D bodies are relatively abundant, get the best your budget will allow.
Best wishes,
Andrew
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Robert Harshman
Posts: 347
Location: Austin, TX and Chicago, IL, United States
Registered: 14 May 2004
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 0:30 GMT
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Jonesy,
Not at all sure why your having trouble finding a Nikon FC-E8. You can easily find them on eBay, and here.
I just put a bunch of Nikon Coolpix stuff on this web site for sale, the adapter lens are all in great shape and are priced in line with the market.
However, I view the FC-E8 as more of a pocket solution, not a quality solution. Your best low cost solution is to find used equipment locally on Craig's list. A well cared for used Canon D10, 20 or 30 s/b able to be purchased for about $200 to $500 and a new Samyang fisheye would be a very good lens for such a cheap setup.
But, if you or your boss wants a FC-E8 they are out there in good supply as there were tens of thousands of these made and sold.
Good Luck,
Robert
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 2589
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 0:35 GMT
updated: 28 Jan 2010 at 0:39 GMT
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Jonesy
The only place you are going to find a somewhat stable supply of Fisheye Convertors is from iPIX/Minds Eye View
www.ipix.com
They are selling the Nikon Coolpix 5000 with the iPIX/Solignor lens and an iPIX 2 stop rotator for $1299 and the same setup with a Coolpix 6000 for $1599
But you may have to get some of their software like the iPIX Real Estate Wizard sofware (looks like its free) and some Real Estate Keys ($20 for 5)
Nobody says you have to use the software or the keys 
Another choice is Nodal Ninja.
They have the iPIX/Solignor in stock now under Used Equipment (wrong description its not 4.88mm) and have been taking some trade-ins for FC-E8s and E9s (I traded in one of each for an R1). Your boss might have to buy some of what ever he can get before he needs them and stockpile them
One option not mentioned that might work for some one used to a 2 stop capture is the Sunex 5.6mm fisheye. With their proproetary 3 stop rotator you won't need a Zenith shot or to "tilt" up to cover the Zenith
The Sunex would shoot like a 3 shot capture with a Coolpix 5000/5100/6000 with an FC-E8.
Its not as sharp as some of the other dSLR recomendations you've gotten, but on a $500 Canon XS, the results would be heads and shoulders above any P&S camera with a fisheye convertor. The Sunex 5.6mm goes for $799 and their 3 stop rotator is $199. www.SuperFisheye.com
For $1500 you'd have a simple 3 shot capture and quality way above any P&S and an lens supply that has been around for a few years now
Good luck
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Ken Warner
Posts: 703
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 3:06 GMT
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I have and use the IPIX/Soligor fisheye. It works well for the price and you can put it on a Panasonic LX3 or a Canon G10 and get panos more than good enough for the web.
Take a look at:
store.nodalninja.com/category_s/61.htm
About half way down the page you'll find the IPIX/Soligor fisheye and a couple of panos I did with it.
Those panos were done with a 5 year old 9mp Fuji e900. A real old camera. A camera like the LX3 or G10 would give even better results.
For real estate, I don't think you need much more.
You can get the LX3 for under $400 and the G10 for around $400 the IPIX/Soligor costs $99.95. You aren't going to get a cheaper kit.
Disclaimer: I have no connection with Nodal Ninja except that I think it is a really great company with really great customer support.
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Robert Harshman
Posts: 347
Location: Austin, TX and Chicago, IL, United States
Registered: 14 May 2004
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 3:32 GMT
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Mr Jones from Midway USA, where ever or what ever that is, something is just NOT right about this.
In your profile you say you're a commercial photographer, yet you can't afford even entry level consumer equipment? And we're not even talking about pro-consumer grade cameras and lens? What do you charge for a shoot $39.95?
You must be working for someone that places an extremely low value on photography - this is not good for any of us including you. Care to share more about who you are and what you really shoot for how much?
But, regardless if you want to share or not, here's your really cheap and one stop solution.
store.nodalninja.com/category_s/63.htm
You just can get any easier or much cheaper than this. Now you only have to figure out how you can get out of the photo ghetto your in.
Good Luck,
Robert
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Mr Jones
Posts: 22
Location: Midway USA, United States
Registered: 12 Nov 2009
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 29 Jan 2010 at 16:40 GMT
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Thanks again for the information and leads. I'll look into some of these suggestions and pass them on.
The FC-E8's are on Ebay a lot, but if you don't have time to watch the auctions you can get out bid and then have to start over. That's the issue we've been having. I'll max out my bids at a higher number instead of trying to save that money.
@Robert - I laughed when I read your post and so did some of my office mates. Yes, I work for a company who doesn't want to spend a ton of money on gear. Are there companyies or individuals who don't want to save on capital?
I am a profession photographer and I'm not talking about my gear, this is my employers gear. Midway USA is Kansas and I use it on all my on-line profiles and up to this point nobody has ever asked. Price is often driven by what the market will bare, not what you think it is worth. I site real estate prices in Las Vegas.
I work for a small company called 360Directories.com. Check it out here www.360directories.com/ .
Thanks again for all the information.
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 2589
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 29 Jan 2010 at 17:23 GMT
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Jonesy
There just weren't that many fisheye lenses that were ever made for compact cameras
The Nikon FC-E8 and E9 and the iPIX/Solignor are about all there were, and all have been discontinued
I took a quick look at completed auctions and the E8 is selling closer and closer to its original price of $199
Your boss is going to have to pay more and more for these lesnes and building a business like 360Directories.com around them is going to be like building a business around '57 Chevy's. There's a lot of them still out there, but they're going to get harder and harder to find and more expensive to aquire
At some point he's not going to be able to get them and will hold up the addtiton of another city to your network.
I have a similar site called www.VirtualAlbuquerque.com and have constantly been upgrading my cameras so I can produce better virtual images and especially larger images. My customers like seeing their businesses bigger and better looking. Only the Casa Rondena Winery was shot with a dSLR and you'll see the image quality is alot better even when displayed Super-Size
Sorry, but your boss can't have his cake and eat it to for very much longer
Good luck
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Mr Jones
Posts: 22
Location: Midway USA, United States
Registered: 12 Nov 2009
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Re: PNS gear for good quality tours... not using FC-E8
Posted: 29 Jan 2010 at 17:37 GMT
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Doug,
You are correct and I think he knows this, but for now it is what it is. We will upgrade eventually, it's just when do they want to do that and what the market will be able to support for each city. I would love to just get the DSLR,/8mm/R1, but you already know this.
Thanks for the comment.
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