Ad Bo
Posts: 22
Location:
Registered: 24 Jan 2009
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Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 8 Aug 2009 at 16:22 GMT
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Hi,
I am trying to make a pretty big panorama that loads in a single go. But I see the cube size in Pano2VR is limited to 2880.
Any way to make bigger panorama's with Pano2VR? I heard the limit was introduced in Pano2VR 2.0 b4, but I tried 2.0 beta 2 and it was still limited. Should I try other software?
I need about 3500.. Are there problems for normal users to view these?
Thanks!
Adriaan
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gus
Posts: 574
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 8 Aug 2009 at 16:26 GMT
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Can I ask why you would want such a huge pano?
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 8 Aug 2009 at 16:54 GMT
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The 2880 limit is actually an error or lets call it an misunderstanding which many flash developers have.
This limit is for a stage bitmap not for a cubeface or the size of the panorama.
For example if you include a simple png or jpg banner as a background for thumbnalis it can not be longer than 2880 pixels even if the size in kb is very small.
There are other limits for a single image like an equirectangular or a strip of cubefaces and that limit is 8191 pixels.
For the cubefaces the limit may be around 6400x6400 if you have enough ram but in reality the limit is much smaller because of memory use.
If you have only 512 mb ram the max is around 2400x2400.
I have some testpages with FPP with 6360x6360 which I can load but many computers fails loading all cubefaces already at 4600x4600.
Here is the 4600. My Safari uses 1.2 GB to load this one.
www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-4600.html
And the 6360. Beware that you browser may crash.
www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-6360.html
Hans
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Ad Bo
Posts: 22
Location:
Registered: 24 Jan 2009
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 8 Aug 2009 at 17:08 GMT
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But in my favourite Pano2VR I can't do it, it limits the size to 2880 automatically. No solution to that? FPP has no such problem?
I am trying to show single fish-eye pics, about 2/5 of a full spherical panorama. So I could do with some more detail since it is available in the original pictures. I am looking to get 3500x3500.
Adriaan
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DorinDXN
Posts: 2853
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Ad Bo
Posts: 22
Location:
Registered: 24 Jan 2009
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 8 Aug 2009 at 17:44 GMT
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I will look into krpano, although I hope to do it in Pano2VR. Keeping it as simple as possible, one flash file. It is only just above the max so I don't really want to go to a new viewer.
That pano is massive and works nice, even the reflection in the window looks real!
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Hans van Overbeek
Posts: 14
Location: Maassluis, Netherlands
Registered: 2 Jun 2009
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 7:31 GMT
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Hi Ad,
I join the question of Gus. Why do you want a size larger than 2880?
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Guest
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 8:34 GMT
updated: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:13 GMT
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I can only answer for myself: The miniature "viewers" from years ago (ipix and other java based viewers) are simply too small. Today we can already get monitors with resolution of 2880 (x900), and there is no limit reached yet. Things are getting bigger, resolutions are getting higher... and there is no sense in staying behind with panorama viewers of 360x280 pixels. Our media is VISUAL, and it can just as well be visualized in large formats, where it can be seen.
The move by Adobe to put limits on the file sizes, was plain stupid and abusive. If it was the only way for them to get version 9 done, then fine, but they have moved on to version 10, and I truly thought they would vice up and remove the limitation... but that didn't happen.
With the latest laser projector technology, we can see perfect displays of visual material. Displaying an image that is 400x400 pixels, onto a screen that is 200 inches, will of course be nothing short of a horror-show. Going for bigger images is the way to go.
Personally I do not produce panoramas for my clients bigger than 2000x2000, unless it's for special projects, such as projectors being used for demonstrations etc. Then the size is taken to the Flash limit.
A year ago I was making panoramas at 14-1500 pixels on each cube side, now I'm at 18-2000 per cube size. It moves forward as internet connection speeds and computers improve. I can see that in 4 more years, the minimum standards for cube faces will probably be around 3000x3000 pixels.
So for me, the question "Why do you want more than 2800 pixel image" sounds very detached from the technical evolution we live in.
The question "Why would you want to display your work in tiny small windows, without fullscreen option" sounds more logical. After all people are supposed to SEE (clearly) the work we do.
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erik leeman
Posts: 144
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 24 Aug 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 9:54 GMT
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Trausti said: ...snip
The question "Why would you want to display your work in tiny small windows, without fullscreen option" sounds more logical. After all people are supposed to SEE (clearly) the work we do.
Well, maybe not every panomaker is too happy with this resolution-evolution on the visitor's side. People who still do 3-shot panos with a cropsensor camera will clearly have to upgrade their gear and methods fast to keep up, or nobody will be interested in their work in the near future. Others will have to work very hard to improve the quality of their work, because not even the slightest error will go unnoticed at those dimensions. Of course ignoring a change is much easier then trying to adapt (or take a lead).
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gus
Posts: 574
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 16:50 GMT
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Ad wants cubefaces of 3500x3500. This is equivalent to a pano that has an 11000 wide equirectangular image.
I was just curious for what application such a pano would be required. Offline presentation? Specific reason to zoom in perhaps?
And I agree, for panos to be truely immersive, they should be able to be viewed fullscreen. But this doesnt necessarily mean they have to be huge......
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erik leeman
Posts: 144
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 24 Aug 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 18:44 GMT
updated: 9 Aug 2009 at 18:44 GMT
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If I understood Adriaan correctly he 'merely' wants to show just one single fisheye image at a time, so one full 90x90 degree cube face + some overflow to adjacent cubefaces.
And he wants to show them at their original resolution too.
He can do that using KR pano, but he happens to want just one single Flash file, like (only) Pano2VR can make them.
But Pano2VR is limited by its maker to cubefaces of 2880x2880 pixels, so Adriaan has a problem. There's no reason to question his motives, he only asks for technical help to get what he wants.
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gus
Posts: 574
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 19:13 GMT
updated: 9 Aug 2009 at 19:18 GMT
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That's not the way I read Adriaan's original post. The fact that different interpretations of his post exist, is enough reason to ask about his intended application. In case there is another product that could do the job for him. In fact, one of Adriaan's questions was "should I try a different software?" How can we suggest an alternative software without "questioning his motives"??
That's how discussions are stimulated, by asking questions. Something this forum is usually tolerant of.......
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Ad Bo
Posts: 22
Location:
Registered: 24 Jan 2009
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 19:18 GMT
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Well, Pano2VR 2.0 beta 3 can make larger cube faces. For a standard 5D m2 picture at 12mm it comes at 3506x3506.
Only with 3506 the flash file size balloons to a whopping 21.9 megabytes, where it is 5.3 megabytes for 2880 cube faces.
I guess when you keep the original suggested size it doesn't do the image compression. When I make the cube size 3500 the file size goes to 7 MB
I am just trying to keep as much of the original image's resolution.
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2791
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 20:27 GMT
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Ad
Even if the theoretical maximum cubefaces is 3506 the real size is much smaller.
99% of the Digital Cameras lie. The real resolution of a sensor is actually much smaller. This is because they use the Beyer pattern
If you reduce the size to 70% which is 2454x2454 you get a more realistic size which if you compare it to your 3506 will be almost identical in true resolution.
Hans
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erik leeman
Posts: 144
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 24 Aug 2007
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Re: Max cube size for Flash panorama
Posted: 9 Aug 2009 at 20:49 GMT
updated: 9 Aug 2009 at 20:54 GMT
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Hmmm, Hans has a point there.
And remapping a fisheye image to a (set of) rectilinear cube faces doesn't really improve quality either.
Many people (me included) feel Pano2VR isn't really the best tool to make cube faces with, but you can feed it cubefaces made by other programs, the latest version of PTGui for instance. That also might help a bit getting the highest possible resolution for your Flash file.
I get best results by first making the largest possible cubefaces (3506x3506 in your case), then scaling them down to the desired size in Photoshop, followed by some careful sharpening. Only then will I give them to Pano2VR to turn them into VR files, QuickTime or Flash.
Erik
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