Peter Stark
Posts: 345
Location: Glasgow, United Kingdom
Registered: 12 Sep 2007
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Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 8:18 GMT
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Hi,
I have noticed that panos displayed with Flash Panorama Player & KR Pano seem to run smoother than those produced by Pano2VR. Yet all 3 purport to use flash 10, So, why the difference in smoothness of the display?
I like Pano2VR due to its simplicity, (and at how readily it is updated) but, as I have a license for Flash Panorama Player I have been playing around with that too lately and although it is a little more involved with the XML and the plugins etc, I am struck by the difference in the final display between the two.
Apart from the more advanced features that can be used by either, why would the display in the final output be so marked in a simple one view, full screen panorama, if they both use flash 10? It doesn’t seem to matter what size of file I throw in, like for like, FPP does seem to display better than those produced by Pano2VR. But I cant think of a reason why this should be, or am I missing something? I am perplexed (ok, is my normal state of being) 
Peter
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Smooth
Posts: 2688
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 8:39 GMT
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Peter,
Personally I don't find this to be true at all.
What panoramas are we comparing? Moreover, what settings are you using in Pano2VR?
Regards, Smooth 
www.smooth360.info
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2059
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 8:41 GMT
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I do not know how much you played with the default settings but that is definetily one problem with Pano2VR.
The panning using default is very weird and uncontrollable, especially if you have an older computer and use a large screen.
It may help if you reduce the setting for sensivity in the advanced options.
Also uncheck the option for decrease quality while moving and the stage quality. This will remove the very pixelated look when panning.
But FPP has so many different settings to play with which the others do not have and it is possible to get much better performance easier.
Use the editor to see the reaction to them without using the xml.
Unfortunately you do not have the Flash 10 quality settings in the editor.
Hans
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Seba
Posts: 70
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Registered: 19 Aug 2005
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 9:10 GMT
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Hi there Peter
You have to remember that Flash player is identical in all cases and the panorama is not any special file but regular Adobe Flash SWF file. Normally we author FLA files in FLASH and output into SWF, but to produce panorama, one need rather advanced Action Script programming skills, which could be challenging for many people. The tools that we use basically automate the process and simply utilize the SWF file format as output only because Flash player penetration
is very big and much faster to download than QT player or other custom made players. It could be JAVA or whatever
but who would want to download and install? Best to utilize existing and well established technology like FLASH.
Each of the author's programming will be very individual, hence the difference in output file. Even tho the concept is similar and some of the coding will be alike inside of the SWF files, there are countless ways to achieve the same effect in flash and we all use our own preferred methods. Some are more or less optimized than the other products
bit different results.
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Peter Stark
Posts: 345
Location: Glasgow, United Kingdom
Registered: 12 Sep 2007
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 9:12 GMT
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YOU TWO WERE QUICK
Okay, am heading off out just now (been told to go get a wall plastered)  But, I will try and post more details later. I would say now though, that it isn’t just panos made by me that I have noticed the difference in, i.e. I have no experience with KR Pano, but do see the same effect in the panos of others. Just curious as to why this should be. I am well aware that both have a myriad of functions and settings available, but really I have only skirted around the most basic of settings of both, so I don’t think that I am looking at anything overly advanced.
Will try and give more details of my own findings later.
Peter
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Peter Stark
Posts: 345
Location: Glasgow, United Kingdom
Registered: 12 Sep 2007
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 9:16 GMT
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Seba:
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense to me, put me down as one who is seriously challenged But it does explain why a difference can occur.
Thanks again!
Peter
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Panoramix NO
Posts: 64
Location: Tromso, Norway
Registered: 17 Jul 2008
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 11:46 GMT
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there is another pano player just around the corner that you can play with - panosalado (what unusual in thi$ world - its free)
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 1222
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 25 Jun 2009 at 23:24 GMT
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Why the difference in download speed dependening on which programme was used to create an immersive panorama? Download of my Pano2VR Flash/SWF panoramas from my own domain is very much slower than the same panorama downloaded from 360Cities.net
Mark
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Wayne
Posts: 96
Location: Derbyshire, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 May 2004
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 0:07 GMT
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Program, please! I nearly failed my O level in 1985 for using "program" to describe a computer "program" the teacher, ran a mile when confronted with the truth..
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Peter Stark
Posts: 345
Location: Glasgow, United Kingdom
Registered: 12 Sep 2007
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 7:44 GMT
updated: 26 Jun 2009 at 7:48 GMT
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Hi Mark,
As I understand it: Download speed depends on a few things; physical location, server conditions & local conditions. If the server or internet traffic is busy, it can slow things down. There is also the question of bandwidth, both at the server side and local side, a dedicated server would tend to have greater bandwidth than a shared server (which is what I am on).
Also, with 360Cities I seem to recal that they employ a method to seemingly speed up pano displays (hence being allowed to upload tif's) where what is being looked at is downloaded first, (though I am not sure about this) where panos made by Pano2VR (others are the same I think) the downoad is in an order. The order of download can be adjusted in Pano2VR, though I am not sure if this could have much effect really.
Peter
(who didnt start learning till after leaving school)
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 1222
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 11:08 GMT
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This isn’t a complaint about 360Cities, I would just like to know whether I can come close to matching its speed independently.
What Peter says about prioritising download to just the part of the image you first view echoes what Jeffery of 360Cities says. It makes very good sense. Why wait until every last pixel has been received before displaying a full resolution image, a la Pano2VR? Now I will be sad to give up Pano2VR which I’ve used almost from it’s first release (and Pano2QTVR before that). So again – is there another application I can buy which isn’t too difficult for a slow starter (for that’s what I was at school and certainly am in my dotage) to handle?
Hope this satisfies your English teacher, Wayne. When I can't spell something - which is frequently the case - I fish around for an alternative. Programme program = application etc. 
Cheers,
Mark
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 2059
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 11:48 GMT
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Mark
If you done quicktime fast loading with tiles you know how to do it in Pano2VR also.
There is no difference .
Just choose 3x3 tiling and make sure you set the direction where you wait it to start.
The result is very similar to KRPano tiling except that with KRPano you can make the initial display window very small and the pano loaded there will just use a low resolution version of the pano.
When you go fullscreen you then have to download a complete new version with other tiles.
In reality KRpno uses much more bandwidth for the same pano if people choose both to see the small and the fullscreen.
With FPP you can do the same as Quicktime fast load by using QTVR tiled movies as source.
The special thing about the KRPano multiresolution is that you can view very large panoramas because the viewer will unload the not used tiles so that the memory used is only what you use for the visible part.
Same as with Zoomifye images.
However that also means that you might need to load the tiles again and again when you pan around which can be very irritating.
But of course these panoramas will use gigantic amounts in bandwidth.
30-40mb per pano is very common.
Many of the panos at 360cities load very slow for me because I use a large screen and when you see them in fullscreen you have to download the full resolution which for many of them is 10000x5000 pixels or more.
most panoramas I have at panoramas.dk are around 2 mb and load in less than 10 sec. I experience loading times of 40-60 seconds at 360cities because I have to load all tiles which is around 8-10mb
Hans
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 1222
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: Flash 10 viewers confusion.
Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 13:30 GMT
updated: 26 Jun 2009 at 13:37 GMT
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Hans,
Thanks for your reply. Of course I would like to continue with Pano2VR, not least of all because I’ve paid for it but also out of loyalty to Thomas Raucher who has put in so much work for us, but I don’t quite understand your in suggestions, so when you have time could you take a look at this screen shot (oversize for the sake of legibility) and give me, and others in the same boat, a blow by blow instruction of what to do. I can tell you it will be really appreciated.
Mark
PS - Please go to
panoradiant.co.uk/test/test1.jpg
if you want to download the screen shot to full screen
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