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Thread: Pricing??

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takeme360

Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Registered: 13 Nov 2008
Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 14:56 GMT
I know this has a lot to do with your market but I'm looking for ballpark averages for what the pros here charge. Does it differ for real estate tours to commercial properties and hotels? What would be an average price per 3 panos, not including hosting, integration, CDs, etc.
Cheers,
J
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 15:33 GMT
J
Yes pricing differs significantly between real estate tours and commercial/hotels.

I charge $129.95 for a 4 scene iPIX tour here in Albuquerque. Another iPIX photographer in Santa Fe, NM charges $149.95 for a tour. That inlcudes the $19.95 fee to have the tour distributed to Realtor.com.

For hotels (New Mexico is big on tourism) I've struggled to get between $75-$100 per scene for higher quality iPIX/2 fisheye capture method over the last few years.

But I don't think I'll have trouble getting at least $100 per scene once I start advertising my work produced with my Canon XTi/Sigma 8mm.

I'm about to mail out some advertising and a sample CD listing the $100 price as an "introductory" price. That leaves me the option of raising the price later.

Good luck
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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takeme360

Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Registered: 13 Nov 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 19:50 GMT
Thanks for the reply Doug. The Canon XTI and Sigma 8mm is exactly the setup I use and I love it. I'm in Canada so I'm not sure if my clients would link into something similar to realtor.com and how I would go about doing that. But it's also something to keep in mind.

With your marketing CDs, what kind of user interface do you use? Or is it a "portfolio" with a number of different panos they can choose from?
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 20:39 GMT
updated: 4 Feb 2009 at 20:40 GMT
takeme360
I still use my Nikon Coolpix 5400/FC-E9 for my lower paying real estate work because the workflow is so much simpler than the Canon/Sigma 8mm process.

What I have in mind for hotel/commercial work is 2 price levels; more expensive, higher quality virtual images from the Canon/Sigma 8mm and a more affordable tour shot with the Canon and the Coastal Optics 4.88mm I just got.

The Coastal Optics 4.88mm will let me use an iPIX-like capture and stitching method while benefiting from the much better image quality the Canon XTi puts out compared to a compact camera like my Nikon Coolpix 5400

I had an Adobe/Macromedia Director/Shockwave developer make me a Projector that plays .W3D files an External Cast Folder.

If you're not familiar with Director, all the funtions have a theater/movie theme/name. Like a background is called the Stage, multimedia objects are called the Cast and plugins are Extras.

The Director Projector plays the W3D files natively without Flash, Java or Quicktime being pre-installed on a computer. Both iPIX Interactive Studio with the Format Pack and Autodesk/Realviz Stitcher Unlimited will output W3D files.

It has a real simple look with just enough controls for anyone to take a tour of my portfolio of recent work I put in the Cast Folder. I have a set of 5 images I plan to use for this mailing to the hotels and web site developers in the next month or so.

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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NYCreate

Posts: 497
Location: North Yorkshire & Northern England, United Kingdom
Registered: 21 Aug 2005
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 21:19 GMT
The prices Doug has quoted I would take as the lower to mid end of pricing, (some idiots in the US however have even been known to do $10 panos!)
It all depends on market conditions and your client. A 'Pro' photographer would charge maybe $200 an hour alone without any image rights, but unfortunately in the pano world theres always someone that will undercut you.
I wish clients would remember the cheapest price isnt always the best quality.
Think, what are you worth?, what are your overheads?, and what is the potential gain for your client.
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 4 Feb 2009 at 21:39 GMT
updated: 4 Feb 2009 at 21:47 GMT
Overhead has a lot to do with it in Albuquerque, NM

The cost of living is lower here than in the east or west coasts

Thats why, even with the recession, we have businesses moving here

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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byron2

Posts: 250
Location: Perth, Australia
Registered: 13 Sep 2004
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 5 Feb 2009 at 0:39 GMT
Personally I find you are doing yourself an injustice by also doing a cheap version.

I do premium and standard - all have the same fullscreen 10000x5000 panos, just the premium is a bespoke system with colours logos, maps and info etc - in essence a web design service.

Just like photographers - there is a place for the mass market and also the high end.

Try and stick to your standards - this will be the niche you`ll be known for.

Cheers

John

www.flash360.net
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mrc

Posts: 47
Location: Calgary, Canada
Registered: 21 Oct 2007
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 5 Feb 2009 at 0:42 GMT
Pricing depends on your local competition. Some people in this forum believe that a pano is worth 200 each view. that is great if you can get away with that but if you want to get customers consistently other once every 6 months your better off to charge a better rate. Where i am there are too many guys chasing the same business , so I have have to go off volume and if you were trying to get into the market here i would say dont bother wasting your time. the only reason i can do what i do is i have spent over 3 years building relationships with my customers...pricing is only secondary. I charge 110 for 5 views to my real estate clients , i add on other costs like stills and custom work. i charge more to commercial clients like hotels and Museums.

Mike
www.360pics.ca
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 5 Feb 2009 at 0:53 GMT
John/byron2
The idea is just to get more non-real estate work at first.

Using the Coastal Optics 4.88mm on my Canon XTi will let me make twice the profit per scene using almost extactly the same process I use for real estate tours

The idea is; as my volume increases, I'll raise my price.

Marriott Hotels is a classic example of this. When they open a new hotel in an area, they come in with very low prices just to put "heads in beds." Then then they raise their room rates every year until they're one of the highest priced chain hotels in that market.

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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byron2

Posts: 250
Location: Perth, Australia
Registered: 13 Sep 2004
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 5 Feb 2009 at 1:09 GMT
updated: 5 Feb 2009 at 1:15 GMT
I would have agreed with you a few years back - but I found myself flying around everywhere - for not much.

But I agree - if exposure for your brand is important, then do a cut rate.

I don`t tend to do real-estate anymore. Commercial stuff and tourism is better.

There are markets out there that have not been touched as far as Vr is concerned - why chase the real estate when everyone else is also. (this is not aimed at anyone)

e.g - 1 days work at a trade show (this one was loft conversions!!) got me recurring work over the next 2 years.

Cheers

John www.flash360.net
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takeme360

Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Registered: 13 Nov 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 6 Feb 2009 at 12:36 GMT
Thanks for all the help guys. I am targeting commercial and tourism markets as opposed to real estate. From what I've found, they're either unwilling to spend the marketing dollars or think they can do it themselves. The latter of which makes me laugh because a lot of them don't have a clue.

I do like the trade show idea John. How did you go about pitching this idea? Did you know the organizers or did you pitch it to the property which hosted the event?
cheers.
J
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 6 Feb 2009 at 15:30 GMT
updated: 6 Feb 2009 at 15:35 GMT
takeme360
Doing virtual tours for the Commercial and Tourism markets is much more profitable than real estate, there just isn't as much work.

I've used my real estate work like it was "paid practice." And there is one big benefit to real estate work, once you "sell" a Realtor they become a repeat buyer, needing virtual tours for each of their new listings. Once they become a customer, there's just a some ongoing customer service and order after order.

The key to selling hotels is being known to them at the right time. If they finished a major renovation 2 years ago and are doing well, they're a hard sell. The same if they have their renovation scheduled for next year, they may be willing to talk with you and ask for a proposal, but they're not going to do anything until that renovation is done.

That's why I invested in the "W3D Player CD." It lets me put a sample of my work in their hands. Something they can touch and feel. And if they're interested at all, they'll file the CD and printed information away for the future when they're ready. My thinking is the CD is harder to lose than just printed materials or a URL

Of the 9 hotels I've done virtual tours of, 4 of them had just finished major renovations. One they literally tore down the old hotel and built a new one on the site. I'm hoping to get a historic hotel here (a Hilton built in the 1930s) in Albuquerque that is in the process of a renovation and another that is going through a renovation to become a Sheraton

A big part of selling a virtual tour to a hotel is showing them the value

Having a background in the hotel business, I wrote a series of articles for an online hotel management magazine about how a virtual tour can benefit the hotel's bottom line. I use printed copies of the articles as part of the materials I mail out. "The Online Property Tour" describes the idea of guiding some one calling on the phone through the hotel...online, over the Internet.

For the Albuquerque & Santa Fe hotels I include a "Feature Page" on VirtualAlbuquerque.com or VirtualSantaFe.com free for a year.

My two sites have become fairly popular and drive traffic to the hotel's website.

With the downturn in the economy and associated drop in travel, I think this may be a good time to sell virtual tours to hotels, motels, inns and B&Bs and other tourism associated businesses.

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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byron2

Posts: 250
Location: Perth, Australia
Registered: 13 Sep 2004
Re: Pricing??
Posted: 7 Feb 2009 at 2:31 GMT
updated: 7 Feb 2009 at 2:32 GMT
Hi Doug,

The downturn is defiantly a plus for us - houses not selling, people panicking etc.

I will now say that I did a house VR yesterday! surprised But the sellers of this house were going to drop this house $100,000!

So before they did this they though they would try a tour site for a few months... this is a complete site showcase not a realty posting. I didn`t really sell it to them - they rang and were determined to have it. smile

I hope it works for them!

J

As far as trade shows - what you can do (and I have done a few times) is offer a FREE "official show virtual tour" to the exhibition organizers for free - I have always had yes reponces so far and they usually give you a ticket.

Then just go and do the "official virtual tour" of company stands whilst handing out your card and sending them the url later. Simple really.

Try and think away from the norm - boats and caravans etc have been done before and think the technology is crap (cause they have had the ipix before!)

But how about a grain handling silo show - They do exist - cause I did one and still do silo projects to this day. They might look all the same but you'll be surprised.

Pretty much every industry has a need for space presentation and a trip to any trade show and chatting to potential customers - they will tell you what would be good.



Cheers John
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