Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 5 Dec 2008 at 18:30 GMT
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or the Canon G10.
Each of these have a wide angle lens and plenty of pixels .. I think ..
At $400 or so these are attractive for me to start making panoramic photographs.
Note: I recently bought a panoramic head (Jasper Pano 3) and have had nice results from a 6 MP Canon point and shoot.
I wish to upgrade but not to a large and expensive SLR.
I could re-activate my Pentax K-1000 .. perhaps comment on that as an option.
thank you in advance
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 5 Dec 2008 at 19:15 GMT
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Loyd
For non-SLR cameras, right now the Nikon Coolpix P5100 with the Nikon FC-E8 Fisheye Converter and a 360Precison P5100 rotator is your best bet.
A VR Photographer sent me a pair (2 fisheyes) of photos shot with the P5100/FC-E8 and they stitched really nice in both iPIX Interactive Studio and Autodesk/Realviz Sitcher Unlimited.
If you use PTGui, you'll get better results with the FC-E8 doing 3 shots around.
There are 3 complete iPIX equipment setups on eBay right now; 2 are the Nikon Coolpix 8700/FC-E9 and one is the Coolpix 5000/Fc-E8
The 8700 was one of the best setups for non-SLR virtual photographer
Good luck
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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mediavets
Posts: 1980
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 5 Dec 2008 at 19:17 GMT
updated: 5 Dec 2008 at 19:18 GMT
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Lloyd Peterson said: or the Canon G10.
Each of these have a wide angle lens and plenty of pixels .. I think ..
At $400 or so these are attractive for me to start making panoramic photographs.
Note: I recently bought a panoramic head (Jasper Pano 3) and have had nice results from a 6 MP Canon point and shoot.
I wish to upgrade but not to a large and expensive SLR.
I could re-activate my Pentax K-1000 .. perhaps comment on that as an option.
thank you in advance
Hmmm... why did you buy the single row Jasper Pano 3 when for the same money you could have bought a multi-row Nodal Ninja 3 MkII?
Anyway, The wide end of the zoom of these cameras is not that wide LX3 is 24mm and Canon G10 is 28mm.
Both are more expensive that say a Nikon D40 DSLR which will produce better image quality than any compact, and the 18-55mm kit zoom lens is as wide at 18mm (1.5x18=27)as the Canon G10.
Pixel count really doesn't matter much for panos.
Andrew
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ebig
Posts: 171
Location: Haiku, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 21 May 2007
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 5 Dec 2008 at 21:24 GMT
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You may have seen this:
www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/5134/
Also it's easy to fashion a DIY head, (to save money and perhaps spend some time.)
Ed
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etegration
Posts: 242
Location: Singapore
Registered: 28 Jan 2007
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 6 Dec 2008 at 14:57 GMT
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mediavets said: Lloyd Peterson said: or the Canon G10.
Each of these have a wide angle lens and plenty of pixels .. I think ..
At $400 or so these are attractive for me to start making panoramic photographs.
Note: I recently bought a panoramic head (Jasper Pano 3) and have had nice results from a 6 MP Canon point and shoot.
I wish to upgrade but not to a large and expensive SLR.
I could re-activate my Pentax K-1000 .. perhaps comment on that as an option.
thank you in advance
Hmmm... why did you buy the single row Jasper Pano 3 when for the same money you could have bought a multi-row Nodal Ninja 3 MkII?
Anyway, The wide end of the zoom of these cameras is not that wide LX3 is 24mm and Canon G10 is 28mm.
Both are more expensive that say a Nikon D40 DSLR which will produce better image quality than any compact, and the 18-55mm kit zoom lens is as wide at 18mm (1.5x18=27)as the Canon G10.
Pixel count really doesn't matter much for panos.
Andrew
yes, as i have found out. megapixel isn't everything. I have the P5100, FC-E8 mounted on the P5100 using the UR-E20, see the comparision on outputting the same pano using the P5100 with the FC-E8 and the 40D with a 10-22mm or the Peleng 8mm on the same 40D.
P5100 - moonshine.homedns.org:2655/pano/fullscreens/02Oct...
40D - moonshine.homedns.org:2655/pano/fullscreens/02Oct...
YOu see the biggest difference when you view it on bigger screens like a 24 incher. Megapixel isn't everything, the sensor size made all the difference.
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 7 Dec 2008 at 1:39 GMT
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Well I was unaware of the Nodal Jinja.
The software I'm using now is Photoshop Elements 5 for Mac. Would I need different software for multiple rows?
So wide angle is very important?
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 7 Dec 2008 at 1:47 GMT
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Thank you Doug .. I will look at those Nikon cameras.
For the next few months I will get by with Pentax K1000 and Canon PowerShot A700.
My goal is to find a number of suitable scenes here in the Finger Lakes. I'm especially interested in the hill and valleys actually, rather than the lakes.
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mediavets
Posts: 1980
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 7 Dec 2008 at 9:19 GMT
updated: 7 Dec 2008 at 9:47 GMT
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Lloyd Peterson said: Well I was unaware of the Nodal Jinja.
The software I'm using now is Photoshop Elements 5 for Mac. Would I need different software for multiple rows?
So wide angle is very important?
Lloyd,
I am amazed that you managed to learn of the Jasper pano head - one of the most obscure brands - and not the Nodal Ninja heads, the most popular and widely used and widely sold brand of pano head in the world. If price was the major consideration you could have bought the single and multi-row capable Panosaurus pano head for less than US$ 90 which would have worked quite well with yoiur Canon A700:
gregwired.com/pano/Pano.htm?gclid=COTnqLmWrpcCFcs...
IF you wish to get 'serious' about stitching panos then the two most capable stitching programs around, in my opinion, are PTGui and Autopano Pro. Both offer free trial versions so you can download and try them:
www.autopano.net
www.ptgui.com
Wide angle is very important for single row panos (all your Jasper head can do) and 360x180 sphrical panos because the Field of View is determined by focal length - the shorter the focal length the wider the angle/field of view (FOV).
So in a single row pano the max. vertical FOV with the camera mounted in portrait orientation is determined by the max. HFOV with the camera held in landscape orientation. Only you can say whether this is 'enough' for the type of panos you wish to shoot. It may be OK if all you wish to shoot is partial panos (less than 360 degrees HFOV) of distant landscape scenes.
When shooting 360x180 panos using a multirow pano head - such as the Nodal Ninja 3 - the FOV determines the number of pictures you need to cover 360x180. The shorter the focal length the fewer pictures you need to achieve 360x180 coverage.
Canon offers a Wide Angle conversion lens for the Canon A700 - Canon WCDC58N - IF, and only if, you can find one used inexpensively (they are grossly overpriced new, IMO) on eBay it would provide about the same WA FOV as the Lumix DMC-LX3.
Are you intending to shoot panos to make prints or to shoot panos for display on the Web?
Unless your goal is to shoot 360x180 panos for display on the Web forget about the Nikon P5100+FC-E8 fisheye convertor - I have such a setup for 360x180 panos, used with the BoPhoto pano bracket, but it is not a 'general purpose all-round' pano photography setup.
Fisheye lenses are great for 360x180 spherical panos destined for display on the Web because you can achieve 360x180 coverage with far fewer shots (3-7 shots) but they are not good for other type of pano or general purpose photography.
I see no point in 'reactivating' your K-1000 because you would have to digitise the images before you can stitch them - but some film processing labs still offer such services I believe, if you want to give it a go.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 7 Dec 2008 at 20:12 GMT
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I am interested in making a collection of panoramic photographs of this area of western New York I live in. Our topography was created by glaciers and is drawn out in a way that needs more the wide angle to show well.
And if successful I would like to display these on the web.
As I write this I don't know how wide angle the small cameras I referenced are, but it seems like lens for slr's are available for 18 mm (that is what is mentioned) and Lumix had 22 mm equivalent.
Is the Lumix giving up that much?
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etegration
Posts: 242
Location: Singapore
Registered: 28 Jan 2007
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 18:38 GMT
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Lloyd Peterson said: I am interested in making a collection of panoramic photographs of this area of western New York I live in. Our topography was created by glaciers and is drawn out in a way that needs more the wide angle to show well.
And if successful I would like to display these on the web.
As I write this I don't know how wide angle the small cameras I referenced are, but it seems like lens for slr's are available for 18 mm (that is what is mentioned) and Lumix had 22 mm equivalent.
Is the Lumix giving up that much?
The LX3 has RAW output and maybe able to output better/ clearer 360 panos than the P5100. You can really see when on a big screen and if you're interested in creating NY panos for display, i would love to not create them in a window-ed page, i would love to view it full screen on any size of monitor!
I just watched "Ice" (www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/earthpoweroft...), it covered Manhattan, New York! What you mentioned will be the middle of Manhattan, where there's no skyscrapers. Engineers know due to the ice age, 20,000 years ago, ice retreated, boulders/ bed rock were created but a spot was created where sky scrapers can't be supported well thus the skyline has a "space" in between them. Amazingly interesting and NY is the number 1 place i would love to visit. haa
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 22:33 GMT
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Thank you etegration .. your answer is directed more to what I'm looking for. It is interesting that the LX3 support the raw format and has a 24 mm equiv. wide angle.
It struck me that it could approach some of the capabilities of the wider angle possibilities of the digital SLR's.
I suspect that I can have a good time with LX3 developing my first panoramic photographs.
On New York City .. I grew up within 400 miles of it, but left after earning my undergraduate degree, and have returned, after nearly forty years of wandering, to live in New York State, still 400 miles from NYC.
I've spent about an hour as a tourist unable to park in the great city, but have spent nearly a week in Singapore (and much time in many European centers. I'd like to visit NYC too.
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mediavets
Posts: 1980
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 0:29 GMT
updated: 12 Dec 2008 at 0:33 GMT
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Lloyd,
Most compacts are very slow in operation when shooting RAW - unlike DSLRs.
No compact - and I've had many over the years - will match the image quality achieved with even the lowliest of DSLRs. I have both the P5100 and a Nikon D40 (the very cheapest of the Nikon DSLR range with just 6MP) and the DSLR is head and shoulders a better photographic tool than the P5100.
So why do I have the P5100?
1. Because it is small and light.
2. With the UR-E20 adapter I can use the WC-E63 and WC-E68 WA convertors and the TC-E2 telephoto convertor I already had for older Nikon compacts. The WC-E63 works particularly well with the P5100.
3. Because it can use the same tiny Nikon SB-400 external flash as the D40 and produces the best flash photos I've ever achieved with a compact.
4.Because I (also) wanted a very small, light and unobtrusive 'snapshot pano' setup; I use it for spherical 'snapshot' panos with the FC-E8 FE convertor and a Bophoto pano bracket on a lightweight walking pole/monopod - just 4 quick 12MP shots at roughly 90 degree separation will produce a reasonable 360x180 stitched pano with a resolution of about 5000x2500 pixels. It's great fun but no way can it match the results I get with FE lenses on the D40.
With the D40 (6MP) I get a good 360x180 stitched 360x180 pano of about 6000x3000 pixels with 4 shots using the Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, and a very good stitched 360x180 pano of about 8000x4000 with the Nikkor 10.5mm FE.
That said I'm sure you will have a good time with the LX3 it seems to be one of the best compacts. I know some people have managed to fit the FC-E8 FE convertor - with custom adapters - to the LX2 and the images looked quite good to me (better than I get with the FC-E8 on the P5100 I thought). I don't know if it is possible to fit the FC-E8 on the LX3.
Andrew
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 1:40 GMT
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Thank you Andrew ... I'm developing a more complete understanding. I certainly will look at some of the less expensive DSLR's.
I would like to experiment with panoramic scenery shots here in New York's Finger Lakes and in our hills. The shots taken with wide angle lens do not appeal to me and likely my panoramics will fall in the 90 to 180 degree coverage.
Again thank you for your detailed reasoning.
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Roger Hein
Posts: 40
Location: North York, Canada
Registered: 27 Sep 2006
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 1:53 GMT
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Lloyd,
I purchased a Canon G10 this past weekend. I was expecting to be blown away with all the 'hype' surrounding the quality of it's output. In a nutshell I'm going to return it tomorrow. I was very disappointed by the image quality (RAW). CA is VERY prominent even in less than high contrast situations. Overall sharpness is only average for a p+s.
As others have mentioned, at the same price, the lowly Nikon D40 is a far better alternative.
Roger...
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Lloyd Peterson
Posts: 7
Location: Canandiagua, United States
Registered: 6 Nov 2008
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Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 for Panoramic Photography ?
Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 2:14 GMT
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Thank you for the quick review on the G10. Certainly I am willing to buy a DSLR, perhaps willing to spend as much a $1000.
For you and others nice enough to comment on my question here our a couple of panoramics made with my little Canon.
This is a link to a google album
picasaweb.google.com/2lloydpeterson/Panoramics#
The canal photograph is of the 1850 section of the Erie Canal, which was the first widening. This is a section that is a park and museum.
The second is of my neighborhood in Canandaigua.
Note that I'm not looking for a lot more than 90 degree coverage so far.
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