Marius
Posts: 8
Location: South Africa
Registered: 6 Oct 2008
|
Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 8:11 GMT
|
reply
|
Hi there.
I am very new to all of this.
Anyone here use the oblique three shot system with the MrotatorC, Sigma8mm fisheye and 1.6 crop sensor camera?
Thanks,
Marius.
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 8:57 GMT
updated: 6 Oct 2008 at 9:03 GMT
|
reply
|
Not sure it works with a 1.6 crop camera. AFAIK it was designed for a 1.5 crop camera.
The MrotatorC is an interesting concept but quite an old design and rather heavy. The overlaps are very small and stitching more difficult. The design was introduced for a very specific purpose - to enable 360x180 coverage of scenes with a lot of movement using as few shots as possible with the Sigma 8mm FE and a 1.5 crop DSLR. I'm told you can now achieve the same result using the newer lighter Agno's RingT head.
Hans Nyberg has demonstrated that using a rolled shooting technique like this reduces image quality around the central 'zone' of a pano which is where you most want best image quality.
IMO you are better off shooting 4-around without the roll but with a small upwards pitch to ensure adequate coiverage and blending at the zenith. For the sake of just one more shot you'll get better image quality and much easier stitching.
You can do this with most pano heads, for example the popular Nodal Ninja 3 and 5.
If you plan only to shoot panos with the Sigma 8mm FE and no other lenses then you may also like to look at the relatively new 360Precision Atome, a ring-style head with built-in upwards pitch and a mechanism for easy attachment/removal of the lens/camera.
If you insist on a 3-shot setup then choose a FE lens that will produce a full circular image on a cropped sensor - such as the Sigma 4.5mm or Sunex FE, and a ring-style head or an NN180, but you'll find you have a much lower resolution finished pano.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
rudders
Posts: 380
Location: North Yorkshire & Northern England, United Kingdom
Registered: 21 Aug 2005
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 9:32 GMT
|
reply
|
|
8mm with 1.6cf camera def needs min of 4 shots for any sort of decent overlap for stitching.
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Marius
Posts: 8
Location: South Africa
Registered: 6 Oct 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 9:32 GMT
updated: 6 Oct 2008 at 9:37 GMT
|
reply
|
Thanks for the info!
Ok, let me rephrase.
I need:
A system whereby I have to take the least number of photos with the simplest panohead out there with the 1.6 cropped sensor of my Canon 20D.
Less photos means less time spent post processing bracketed images and more flexibility to include more action in the shots I think. Also the simplet the panohead setup the better.
What system would I use and what equipment do I need to purchase (keeping budget in mind)?
For post I am thinking Tufuse, Ptgui, Photoshop and 3DVista View3.
I know I am asking a lot here, I really appreciate the help.
(edited to add that the quality is definately a concern.)
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
|
Marius
Posts: 8
Location: South Africa
Registered: 6 Oct 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 10:36 GMT
|
reply
|
mediavets said: Does bracketig with exposure fusion really go together with scenes with a lot of action?
Hehe obviously not, but the advantages of less shots applies to both?
I think NN3 II is the most cost effective option and is more versatile?
Thanks again,
Marius.
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
badders
Posts: 55
Location: East Kilbride, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 Dec 2007
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 10:49 GMT
|
reply
|
You can also consider taking only 2 or 3 shots with the Sunex 5.6mm fisheye and the new 2/3 shot panoramic rotator.
Andrew Baddeley
www.360tvr.com
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 10:52 GMT
|
reply
|
Marius said:
I think NN3 II is the most cost effective option and is more versatile?
Thanks again,
Marius.
Yes NN3 is more versatile. But you have only suggested using one lens - the Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE - for shooting panos and have also asked for most simple to setup.
Lens specfific heads - like the 360Precision Atome - are obviously more simple to setup but equally the least verstile. It is also much easier to remove lens and camera from this head for a handheld nadir shot should you wish to use one.
Cost-wise there's not that much in it, depending on from where you purchase and shipping costs etc.
If you choose NN3 then also the basic NN3 MkII kit is least expensive but I'd be tempted to go for the version with the new rotator RD-8 or RD-12 depending on how many other lenses you think you might use for pano shooting, for the convenienece of being able to change the number of click stops 'on-the-fly' rather than having to change detente rings.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 11:03 GMT
updated: 6 Oct 2008 at 11:04 GMT
|
reply
|
badders said: You can also consider taking only 2 or 3 shots with the Sunex 5.6mm fisheye and the new 2/3 shot panoramic rotator.
Andrew Baddeley
www.360tvr.com
I think it is now generally accepted that one cannot reliably use a 2-shot technique with this Sunex lens - because the overlaps are too small?
3-shots is easy as it is with any other FE lens that produces a full circular image on a cropped sensor DSLR - like, say, the Sigma 4.5mm.
But both of these lenses are more expensive than the Sigma 8mm f3.5.
With the OP's 8MP Canon 20D the very maximum res. of a 360x180 image produced will be about 4600x2300 pixels - this is less than the generally accepted minimum needed for fullscreen on-line display.
For max. res 360x180 from the 8MP Canon 20D in fewest shots then consider a fullframe FE lens such as the Sigma 10mm FE or Tokina 10-17mm FE and shoot 6-around+Z+N.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Marius
Posts: 8
Location: South Africa
Registered: 6 Oct 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 12:05 GMT
|
reply
|
Thanks for the help Mediavets!
You are right, I am looking at only a single lens for the 20D at the moment. This may change later for both the body and the lens.
Just saw the Sigma 4mm go for about $800 shipping included at B&H Photo. Converted to ZAR it is actually cheaper than the Sigma 8mm is priced over here. Sigma 4mm not available locally yet.
The Sigma 10mm is cheapest of the lot, but then we are back to 6 shots+Z+N, and won't I have stitching issues in confined spaces?
The cost for NN3 II+RD8 is still cheaper than MrotatorC, so it is the logical choice.
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 12:19 GMT
|
reply
|
Marius said: Thanks for the help Mediavets!
You are right, I am looking at only a single lens for the 20D at the moment. This may change later for both the body and the lens.
That's why I chose the NN5 over the NN3 - NN5 can accommodate just about any body and lens I might ever use for pans - but it cost somewhat more. I'm very happy with the NN5 but perhaps better to choose what is 'good enough' now if you are also sheeling out for a new lens?
Marius said: Just saw the Sigma 4mm go for about $800 shipping included at B&H Photo. Converted to ZAR it is actually cheaper than the Sigma 8mm is priced over here. Sigma 4mm not available locally yet.
I dare say most lenses will appear to be cheaper at US or Hong Kong prices than local prices in Southern Africa (as in the UK) but yoiu must factor in shiiping costa nd possible VAT and import duties plus potetential loss of warranty.
Marius said: The Sigma 10mm is cheapest of the lot, but then we are back to 6 shots+Z+N, and won't I have stitching issues in confined spaces?
Not if you set up the head correctly.
Marius said: The cost for NN3 II+RD8 is still cheaper than MrotatorC, so it is the logical choice.
Could be a fine choice as long as you don't want to use heavy, large DSLR bodies and long lenses.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
badders
Posts: 55
Location: East Kilbride, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 Dec 2007
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 12:21 GMT
|
reply
|
mediavets said:
I think it is now generally accepted that one cannot reliably use a 2-shot technique with this Sunex lens - because the overlaps are too small?
Errr. No it's not. Where did you get that from? I was shooting 2 shot panos at Photokina with the new 2 shot rotator without any stitching problems at all. In fact, I've just seen some great HAND HELD two shot images taken with this lens at the show and also out and about in Koln.
Andy Baddeley
www.360tvr.com
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 12:26 GMT
updated: 6 Oct 2008 at 12:39 GMT
|
reply
|
badders said: mediavets said:
I think it is now generally accepted that one cannot reliably use a 2-shot technique with this Sunex lens - because the overlaps are too small?
Errr. No it's not. Where did you get that from? I was shooting 2 shot panos at Photokina with the new 2 shot rotator without any stitching problems at all. In fact, I've just seen some great HAND HELD two shot images taken with this lens at the show and also out and about in Koln.
Andy Baddeley
www.360tvr.com
Then perhaps - as a Sunex reseller - you can make those 2-shot image sets available on-line so that potential customers can experiment and decide for themselves whether the 2-shot technique with the Sunex meets their needs?
Which stitcher do you recommend for 2-shot Sunex image sets?
I think you will however agree that using circular FE lens like the Sunex or Sigma 4.5mm that produce a full circular image on a cropped sensor will result in a relatively low res. final 360x180, and that one will get much higher res. 360x180s using either the Sigma 8mm or a Fullframe FE like the Sigma 10mm, Tokina 10-17mm or Nikkor 10.5mm FEs with a cropped sensor.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
badders
Posts: 55
Location: East Kilbride, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 Dec 2007
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 13:30 GMT
|
reply
|
mediavets said: Then perhaps - as a Sunex reseller - you can make those 2-shot image sets available on-line so that potential customers can experiment and decide for themselves whether the 2-shot technique with the Sunex meets their needs?
Sure I'll upload something later today.
Which stitcher do you recommend for 2-shot Sunex image sets?
Look for the new Stitcher 2009 from Autodesk, IPIX should have an updated Interactive Studio soon and also of course PTGUI. I don't believe AutoPano Pro stitches 2 shot fisheyes (but could be wrong). There's also Panoweaver but not sure if the non-conformal projection of the Sunex lens is handled by Panoweaver at this time.
I think you will however agree that using circular FE lens like the Sunex or Sigma 4.5mm that produce a full circular image on a cropped sensor will result in a relatively low res. final 360x180, and that one will get much higher res. 360x180s using either the Sigma 8mm or a Fullframe FE like the Sigma 10mm, Tokina 10-17mm or Nikkor 10.5mm FEs with a cropped sensor.
Of course I agree totally that the Sunex / Sigma 4.5 produce lower resolution spherical panos than the Sigma 8mm, Sigma 10mm or the Nikon 10.5mm. The FOV's of these lenses are different requiring different shots to complete a sphere, therefore the diameter of the spherical projection is different.
However, I believe the point of the original post was "what lens/rotator do I need to produce a pano in as few shots as possible" not "what lens/rotator produces the highest resolution pano". Therefore it's worth considering both the Sigma 4.5 and the Sunex 5.6 in this context.
Andrew Baddeley
www.360tvr.com
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Anyone use 3 shot system?
Posted: 6 Oct 2008 at 14:11 GMT
updated: 6 Oct 2008 at 14:13 GMT
|
reply
|
I can confirm that I am unable to stitch Sunex 2-shot sets with Autopano Pro - the automatic control point detection cannot cope with such small overlaps. But it works fine with 3-shot sets.
Sure Sunex and Sigma 4.5mm FEs are worth considering if you don't care about res. of 360x180 pano. Although OP didn't say so, I suspect he may be wishing to produce 360x180s that have sufficient res. and image quality for fullscreeen display on-line and (IMO) he won't achieve that with either of these lenses with an 8MP Canon 20D. Perhaps you disagree and can demonstrate otherwise?
He also said that cost was an issue for him - so IMO he'll get the best compromise between cost, image quality, image resolution and no. of shots - best bang for his buck - from the Sigma 8mm f3.5 with his Canon 20D. And if he wants max res. and is willing to accept a few more shots per set then IMO a fullframe FE is the way to go.
Regards,
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Prev
