InControl
Posts: 3
Location: Delta, Canada
Registered: 27 Sep 2008
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FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 19:05 GMT
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I just picked up a FC-E8 and dont yet have the adapter ring or Camera for it, But from my digging around on the internet there seems to be some discrepancy on where the nodal point of this lens is.
The lens has a 183 degree view, so this image I found seems to make sence, that the nodal point would be slightly confront of the black collar..
but looking at the images of the MrotatorA they seem to be having it rotate from a different point..
Could someone who has this lens comment on the correct Nodal Point location?
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mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 19:42 GMT
updated: 27 Sep 2008 at 19:57 GMT
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Do you have a camera in mind to use with the FC-E8 convertor?
I have used the FC-E8 with a Kaidan Kiwi head and also with a Bophoto pano bracket.
The Bophoto bracket is similar in concept to the Agno's MrotatorA but is made of plywood and lacks the rotator, but it is very well designed and excellent quality construction and is relatively inexpensive, and it positions the FC-E8 at a similar position:
www.bophoto.com/bracket/
The Kaidan Kiwi head supports the FC-E8 when used with the Nikon CP990, CP995, CP4500 and CP5000 using various camera-specific 'cradles'. I have used the CP995 and CP5000 with this head.
The cameras have built-in settings for the FC-E8 in two modes; as a full circular FE and as a fullframe FE (180 degrees FOV on the diagonal) and the head has separate settings for each mode. CP5000 in fullframe mode produces very good cylindrical panos.
I guess this makes sense since the combined focal length of the camera's lens and the FC-E8 convertor will be different for the two settings and the entry pupil(NPP) will be different in theory.
OTOH no FE lens has a single entry pupil (NPP).
Neither the Agno's MrotatorA nor the Bophoto bracket has any facility to adjust the position of the FC-E8 in the 'ring clamp'.
I also use an FC-E8 with my Nikon P5100 on the Bophoto bracket and it works quite well. I use it on a photo-wlaking pole as a lightweight,compact pano setup for 'casual snapshot' panos as described in this article by Luca Vascon:
www.nital.it/experience/immersiva-p5000.php
4 shots around at about 90 degrees produces a reasonable quality pano but don't expect to get the sort of results you'd get with a DSLR-based system. Here's are a couple of examples:
www.panoguide.com/gallery/693/
www.panoguide.com/gallery/691/
Andrew
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 789
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 20:15 GMT
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InControl
The iPIX Rotators I've used positioned the both FC-E8 and E9 lenses a little further back
The flat front of the metal ring that holds the glass was lined up with the Pivot Axis of the stem
If you;re taking 3 shots at 120° intervals it probably won't matter. With just 2 shots, I've traded posts with E8 and E9 owners who have the Agnos MRotatorA and they have had a lot more trouble getting invisible seams.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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InControl
Posts: 3
Location: Delta, Canada
Registered: 27 Sep 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 0:25 GMT
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I am looking at getting the Nikon p5100, but still looking around, so any recomendations are more than welcome!! .
For the Mounter I am probably going to make my own out of Aluminum hence wanting to find out the correct spot for the nodal point.. I like the basic design of the MrotatorA but the lack of any adjustments and the fact that it seems the nodal point is positioned wrong seems odd..
Seems to me the MrotatorA has a design flaw. But was hoping some one could confirm this assumption..
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InControl
Posts: 3
Location: Delta, Canada
Registered: 27 Sep 2008
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John Houghton
Posts: 2317
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 6:19 GMT
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InControl said: The lens has a 183 degree view, so this image I found seems to make sence, that the nodal point would be slightly confront of the black collar..
If you are mounting the lens to take 2 shots back-to-back then this position of the entrance pupil (not the nodal point) is the one to use. However, If you are going to take 3 shots around, say, the images will be joined at an angle of 60 degrees to the lens axis (at least, at the horizontal level), and for light rays entering the lens at this angle, the entrance pupil will be further back. This means the camera needs to be mounted on the head further forwards to locate the entrance pupil at the rotational axis. Unfortunately, for light rays coming from the nadir at around 90 degrees to the lens axis, the effective entrance pupil position is at the front of the glass, which will not now be on the rotation axis. So compromises have to be made. For 2 shots around, the images join all the way round at 90 degrees to the lens axis so there is no variation in the entrance pupil position along the entire length of the seam and the mounting point is then clear.
John
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mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 8:47 GMT
updated: 28 Sep 2008 at 9:00 GMT
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InControl said: Seems I am not the first to ask this..
www.pbase.com/panotaker/nikon_5000_nodal_points
It may be that there is no easy answer..
Exactly. As John H has pointed out except for the special case of a 2-shot solution there is always compromise involved WRT entry pupil position when using FE lenses, or FE convertors like the FC-E8/9.
With two shots - even with a very precise pano head and a Nikon CP990/995/5000 for which the FC-E8 was designed to be used - the overlaps are very small and most popular stitching software (eg. PTGui and Auitopano Pro) will have trouble allocating control points automatically and manual setting of CPs will be difficult, and the resolution of the resulting 360x180 pano will be insufficient for fullscreen display - if that is your goal.
OTOH using a P5100/FC-E8/Bophoto bracket I have found that guesstimating rotations of approx. 90 degrees (easier IMO that guesstimating 120 degree rotation) is simple and 4-shots around, even on a monopod for typical outdoor scenes and not using a level, will result in a 'reasonable' pano that stitches easily with, in my case, Autopano Pro.
I don't think you will get any better result by making your own pano head for the FC-E8 than by using either the Bophoto bracket or the Agno's MrotatorA or the Agno's MrotatorPM8.
However precise you attempt to make your homemade pano head for the FC-E8 your results using this convertor on any compact digital camera will not ever approach the sort of results you can get with even the lowliest of recent DSLRs with say a Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE lens.
I'm quite satisfied with my 12MP Nikon P5100/FC-E8/Bophoto bracket/photo-walking pole monopod as a lightweight, discreet and very portable system for 'casual snapshot' panos - and it is fun to use - but it is no match for my lowly 6MP Nikon D40 with either the Sigma 8mm f3.5 or the Nikkor 10.5mm FEs on a my NN5 pano head.
If producing 360x180 panos of sufficient resolution and image quality for fullscreen display on the Web with minimal hassle is your goal then get a DSLR based setup - used Nikon D40s and Canon 350/400Ds are relatively plentiful and inexpensive now, and coupled with a Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE and an NN3, NN5 or 360Precision Atome pano head you'd be all set.
There is no single perfect setup - camera, lens, pano head - for every type of pano shooting. The choice of setup depends on what results you are seeking to achieve.
Andrew
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 789
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 14:28 GMT
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InControl
If you're going to use the FC-E8 and Nikon Coolpix P5100, you should consider the 360Precision P5100 Rotator.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: FC- E8 Nodal Point
Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 15:36 GMT
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Doug Aurand said: InControl
If you're going to use the FC-E8 and Nikon Coolpix P5100, you should consider the 360Precision P5100 Rotator.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Only if you want to use fullcircular images, 2 or 3 shots around, and the final resolution produced is sufficient for your needs.
This head was designed as an alternative to the old IPIX rotators and mounts the camera in landscape orientation.
If you use the Agno's Mrotators, A or P, or the Bophoto bracket - which attach to the FC-E8 rather than to the camera body - you can mount the P5100 in portrait orientation and zoom in a little you peroduce a cropped circular image (cropped at the sides) and get a significantly greater resolution without too much vignetting.
Andrew
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etegration
Posts: 177
Location: Singapore
Registered: 28 Jan 2007
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