KVSSetty
Posts: 10
Location: Bangalore, India
Registered: 10 Jul 2008
|
Settings for my gear
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 at 7:56 GMT
updated: 15 Sep 2008 at 7:57 GMT
|
reply
|
Hello to all,
Just two days back I received my NN5L pano head, with this my hardware is complete for the time being. I would like to know the settings for NN5L (upper and lower scale readings for the following camera and lens combinations.
Nikon D 40x + sigma 8mm + NN5L
Nikon D 40x + Nikon 10.5mm + NN5L
Nikon D 40x + Nkon 18-70mm Zoom at 18mm setting + NN5L
I had seen long back a database somewhere in the net giving all the details for various combinations of camera/ lens ,but not able to recollect.
Any ideas or help with some initial values to start with?
KVSSetty
kvssetty.imagegallery.in
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
halflife
Posts: 145
Location: Romania
Registered: 3 May 2006
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 at 13:04 GMT
updated: 15 Sep 2008 at 13:26 GMT
|
reply
|
Yes the info you need used to be listed on the Nodal Ninja site.
For some - incomprehensible IMO - reason it is no longer on-line.
I used to rely on it too and need the same info for same lenses with my D40 for NN5L. I wish I'd printed the list now. Foolishly I never made a note of the settings I nnede - I just consulted the on-line list when I swapped one lens for another on the head.
Perhaps we should seek to recreate the list of settings? - I'd be happy to host it.
Or maybe we can encourage/persuade Bill Bailey to put the data back on-line in the spirit of openness that usually characterises NN?
IF D40X body is same size as the D40 then try 46.5 on the lower rail and something like 87 on the top rail for the Nikkor 10.5mm as a starting point.
For Sigma 8mm f3.5 try setting the camera on the top rail so that the gold ring on the lens is set back about 4mm from the point of rotation on the top rail.
Lower rail setting would be the same for all lenses.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Nick Fan
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 289
Location: Hong Kong
Registered: 26 May 2006
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 at 14:51 GMT
|
reply
|
Nodal Ninja users just need to email us to get the settings for your camera and lens. They can also use private message of our forum to make the inquiry. Inquiries are usually answered in a few hours.
nick
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
John Houghton
Posts: 2317
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 at 17:21 GMT
updated: 15 Sep 2008 at 17:30 GMT
|
reply
|
I think that's a completely wrong-headed justification for removing the settings data. It's this sort of stance/attitude that has earned one of their competitors such a poor reputation for support.
As Bill points out the data was for the most part offered by customers/users of their heads - so who does it belong to? If it is so very valuable(to competitors)for product development as he claims perhaps NN too should be paying for it? 
IMO this is not the way to maintain a competitive position in the market - the way to do that, as Nodal Ninja has done in the past, is to produce excellent products, competitively priced and backed up with excellent support!
WRT to the plan/idea to provide this data via some sort of password protected web page I don't see how they can/could even know who is a genuine customer/user when NN heads are sold by several distributors and resellers around the world.
I am very happy with my NN5L head and have had superb support in the past, far beyond anything I could reasonably have expected, but I feel that with the removal of this settings data from the web site Nodal Ninja may be taking a wrong turn. Please, please think again.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
KVSSetty
Posts: 10
Location: Bangalore, India
Registered: 10 Jul 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 8:12 GMT
|
reply
|
Hello,
Thanks for all the suggestions and info given by all.
Thank you Mr.Nick Fan for the info and on seeing your reply I have written a email to NN for the info.
It is really great to see people like Johan Houghton respond here for a beginner like me.Really great!.Feeling so happy no words to express my feelings.
KVS Setty
kvsetty.imagegallery.in
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Nick Fan
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 289
Location: Hong Kong
Registered: 26 May 2006
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 14:13 GMT
updated: 16 Sep 2008 at 14:21 GMT
|
reply
|
mediavets said: IMO this is not the way to maintain a competitive position in the market - the way to do that, as Nodal Ninja has done in the past, is to produce excellent products, competitively priced and backed up with excellent support!
don't worry, the removal of the setting database won't change our standard of support. Our customers can still get the data via emails.
WRT to the plan/idea to provide this data via some sort of password protected web page I don't see how they can/could even know who is a genuine customer/user when NN heads are sold by several distributors and resellers around the world.
I am very happy with my NN5L head and have had superb support in the past, far beyond anything I could reasonably have expected, but I feel that with the removal of this settings data from the web site Nodal Ninja may be taking a wrong turn. Please, please think again.
Andrew
Our customer base is still very small. It is perfectly manageable by using password protected web page. Having a database available does not necessarily mean good support.
Our reputation is gained by our real heartful support. You have some point about our tradition. I will take some time to reconsider the whole matter again.
Nick
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Doug Aurand
Posts: 789
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 14:38 GMT
|
reply
|
"I think that's a completely wrong-headed justification for removing the settings data. It's this sort of stance/attitude that has earned one of their competitors such a poor reputation for support."
I always thought Nodal Ninja was more generous with the rails settings than they needed to be.
I've also seen several posts on this forum over the months from buyers of other barands of Panoramic Heads looking for those settings, that their manufacturer wasn't providing them.
Why should a service oriented company like Nodal Ninja provide "support" for a competitor's product?
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 15:17 GMT
updated: 16 Sep 2008 at 15:40 GMT
|
reply
|
Doug Aurand said: "I think that's a completely wrong-headed justification for removing the settings data. It's this sort of stance/attitude that has earned one of their competitors such a poor reputation for support."
I always thought Nodal Ninja was more generous with the rails settings than they needed to be.
I've also seen several posts on this forum over the months from buyers of other barands of Panoramic Heads looking for those settings, that their manufacturer wasn't providing them.
Why should a service oriented company like Nodal Ninja provide "support" for a competitor's product?
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
Doug,
Here's my view of it, as one who has in the past worked in a product marketing role.
The NN settings database publishes data largely provided willingly by NN users/customers for the benefit of others.
People seeking such data (from NN) for heads other than those made by NN have discovered that their head manufacturer can't provide that info. They already own a pano head so for while at least are not in the market to buy another - so they do not represent an immediate sales prospect for NN.
But these owners of heads from other makers will have discovered that NN can provide better support than their current pano head maker, and next time they are in the market for a pano head they will perhaps be more likely to choose a NN head, information about which they will have been exposed to when visiting the NN site for head settings data. They may also be more likely to recommend NN to others seeking their advice about pano heads.
So in that way the settings database could be seen as a marketing tool for NN - a way of getting information out to people who might otherwise not have learned of the products, nor of the great support, offered by NN.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Matt Rogers
[360 Precision]
Posts: 216
Location: Oxford UK, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 16:32 GMT
|
reply
|
Doug Aurand said: Why should a service oriented company like Nodal Ninja provide "support" for a competitor's product?
Well this is completely pointless as the NN settings can't be used on other pano-heads anyway. Plus there seemed to be quite large discrepancies in the values they published on the site. Maybe this is the reason they were removed as customer supplied measurements could very easily be wrong. On the other-hand we have personally tested and verified settings for over 50 camera bodies and hundreds of lenses. I'm not sure how this is poor support for our customers. There's simply no way any other panoramic head manufacturer has tested this many camera and lens combinations. Unless the measurement is accurate to within 0.5mm and we've verified it with test photos the settings don't get added to our database.
You have to realise that in all cases I know of settings from one manufacturers panohead to another are not interchangeable. So NN removing their settings only effects NN customers. Likewise we have a database that's accessible only to 360Precision customers and don't see any reason for the settings being made publically available to non 360Precision customers. What point would a user of another panohead have in 360Precision settings ? And any 360Precision customer can get any setting from our database of over 1000 measurements quite easily.
The main difference with our settings however is that they reference a physical zero on both axes of the camera/lens. This means you can very easily take the camera base to lens mount measurement with the camera off the head. You can then transfer this measurement directly to the pano-head.
tinyurl.com/5n2wmt
For some strange reason no other pano head manufacturer uses a logical zero marker on the head that has any relation to either the camera or lens.
Matt
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
John Houghton
Posts: 2317
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 18:24 GMT
|
reply
|
Matt makes some good points. It seems to me unrealistic to try to create and maintain an ever expanding database that gives individual settings potentially for upwards of 80 DSLR cameras in combination with who knows how many lenses (vrwave.com lists around 50). Each lens should be measured once only and the position(s) of the entrance pupil listed with reference to the focal plane. Likewise each camera should be measured once only, and the position of the tripod mount listed with respect to the sensor plane (marked on the camera body for most, if not all, DSLR cameras). Assuming the NN rail scale markings have their origins at the rotation axes, then the correct position for a given camera and lens combination is easily calculated. Anybody with a new, unlisted camera can measure the camera with calipers and have immediate access to the entire list of lenses (those that will fit, of course). It helps that measurements for lenses from the likes of Sigma and Tokina should be independent of the particular camera mount fitted.
John
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Doug Aurand
Posts: 789
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 18:32 GMT
|
reply
|
Matt
I don't think any of us were implying you and 360Precision didn't support your products.
After all there are no adjustments to make of the Absolute and I've traded emails with people who got the rail settings they needed for their Adjuste from you.
Even if the measurements on other Panororamic Heads don't coincide with Nodal Ninja's, its not hard to figure out from the images that were included with the many rail settings that they were from the Pivot Point to the Camera Screw.
That would give the owner of a Manfrotto 303SPH a place to start that Manfrotto & Bogen didn't provide.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Doug Aurand
Posts: 789
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 18:58 GMT
|
reply
|
Andrew
That works in theory. Not so much in practice.
Once the owner of a non-Nodal Ninja Panoramic Head gets it adjusted using NN's list of settings as a starting point, its unlikely they'll ever buy another Panoramic Head. After all, most of them are adjustable and can accomodate their next camera and lens.
What you're suggesting is Ford mechanics learn to fix Chevrolets, and not charge to fix them, in the hope 5 years from now that car owner will buy a Ford.
Its far more likely the Chevrolet owner will buy a Ford in 5 years if they continue to have problems the Chevy mechanics can't, don't or won't fix.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
mediavets
Posts: 475
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
|
Re: Settings for my gear
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 19:35 GMT
updated: 16 Sep 2008 at 19:36 GMT
|
reply
|
Doug
Doug Aurand said: Andrew
That works in theory. Not so much in practice.
Once the owner of a non-Nodal Ninja Panoramic Head gets it adjusted using NN's list of settings as a starting point, its unlikely they'll ever buy another Panoramic Head. After all, most of them are adjustable and can accomodate their next camera and lens.
If you are correct then they will never be a NN sales prospect so what has NN lost by publishing the data on-line? But some people - you yourself for example - own several pano heads from different makers. I have three - a Kaidan Kiwi, a Bophoto bracket and a NN5L.
Doug Aurand said: What you're suggesting is Ford mechanics learn to fix Chevrolets, and not charge to fix them, in the hope 5 years from now that car owner will buy a Ford.
Its far more likely the Chevrolet owner will buy a Ford in 5 years if they continue to have problems the Chevy mechanics can't, don't or won't fix.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
No, that's not really an apt comparison to what I'm suggesting because it costs NN next to nothing to publish the head settings data on-line since almost all of the settings have been provided by users. As Matt has pointed out not all the data may be accurate as a result, but it certainly provides a 'starting point' which can be further refined by the user. NN may now provide a CD with the settings with each new head, but they didn't when I bought mine and that list of settings will become out of date as new cameras and lenses are released.
I am not suggesting that NN offers any more 'support' than the on-line table of settings to users of other makes of pano head.
One of the reasons I chose to buy the NN5 (plus the Bophoto)rather than the Agno's MrotatorTCP and MrotatorA was that I was able to get answers to my pre-sales questions more readily from NN, including a good understanding from the settings table about which lenses and camera bodies could be used with each of the NN heads!, AND that there seemed to be so many satisfied customers who expressed their enthusiam for the NN heads.
That 'sense' of openness, responsiveness and 'community' is quite alluring. So that's why I feel that removing the on-line table of settings for NN heads may be 'wrong-headed'.
Andrew
|
|
alert moderator
|
|
Prev
...