wouter wynen
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium
Registered: 22 Jul 2008
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stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 16:05 GMT
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Hi,
I'm trying to stitch images taken with my D60+sigma 4.5mm lens.
It takes 180° spherical images, so 2 should be just enough. But I'm using 3 to be sure to have some overlap.
Been trying panoweaver and stitcher unlimited. None give me any result altough they claim to be able to stitch fisheye images...
Here are my images, in low res: www.aversis.be/fisheye.zip
Didn't use a tripod etc, but I expect to get some result even without using the perfect setup to shoot the images.
Here's some results with panoweaver. The first one is with default settings, and when it complains about no matches, I just click to continue without rematching.
The second one I solved all matched points. But then it gets even worse...
I'm looking for a way to stitch these images in a convenient way, without using software that needs an IQ of over 180 
Will need to do a lot of interior panorama's so ease of use and good automatic stitching would be nice
Anyone can point me in the right direction, or maybe can try to stitch my example images?
I liked panoweaver as is auto crops the black of the fisheye images.
Thanks,
wouter
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Bradford Bohonus
Posts: 78
Location: United States
Registered: 29 Jan 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 16:36 GMT
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for starters, your nodal point is way off. get this setup right and shoot another set.
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rudders
Posts: 365
Location: North Yorkshire & Northern England, United Kingdom
Registered: 21 Aug 2005
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 17:24 GMT
updated: 22 Jul 2008 at 17:25 GMT
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Use PTgui once you got your NPP sorted..
Oh and don't use automatic white balance..
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wouter wynen
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium
Registered: 22 Jul 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 17:28 GMT
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thanks, I know, but I'm not looking for a perfect stitch right now. I'm just trying out the software and would expect to get some result with for example bad seems where there should be overlap. But the results I get are so much off that I wonder if it's any good.
The autodesk stitcher doesn't even work at all.
If all is setup perfectly, I don't need any stitching software, I could just unwrap the images and place them next to each other in photoshop by hand and they should match perfectly. I thought the stitching software was made just to cover up for the slight mistakes by overlapping 3 images (instead of 2) and blend/distort them nicely until you get a nice looking result.
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mediavets
Posts: 419
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 17:35 GMT
updated: 22 Jul 2008 at 17:57 GMT
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I don't believe that the Sigma 4.5mm gives sufficient FOV to allow a shot-pano to be created. You need more than 180 to stitch a 2-shot pano.
3-shots will stitch easily if you use a pano head and set the NPP correctly.
Good stitchers also blend the seams and colour balance across the image set!
That said I had no problem getting a basic stitch with Autopano Pro, get a trial version here:
www.autopano.net/wiki/Lastest_Beta
You will find documenation and tutorials here:
www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/Main_Page
And the excellent APP user forum here:
www.autopano.net/forum/
There are some very smart (and very helpful) people there but you certainly don't require an IQ of 180 to use APP.
IMO you would have been altogether better off with a Nikkor 10.5mm FE or a Sigma 8mm f3.5FE and a Nodal Ninja pano head - I use both on my lowly D40. The Sigma 4.5mm FE on a Nikon D60 is unlikley to produce a 360x180 pano of sufficient resolution and satisfactory image quality to allow fullscreen display on-line.
Andrew
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 714
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 18:57 GMT
updated: 22 Jul 2008 at 18:58 GMT
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Andrew is correct.
To be able to stitch from just 2 circular fisheyes, the lens must have a Field of View greater than 180°.
Something like the 183° FOV the FC-E8 and E9 had on the Coolpix cameras or the 185° FOV the Coastal Optics 4.8mm has. Theoretically the Sunex 5.6mm with its 185° FOV should be able to produce 2 photos that can be stitched into a full 360°x 360° image, but they've had some problems showing it can.
With the Sigma 4.5mm you'll need 3 shots and a little tilt up to cover the Zenith
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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John Houghton
Posts: 2265
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 21:24 GMT
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wouter wynen said: Didn't use a tripod etc,
Bad mistake. It is pointless to use hopelessly inadequate images to compare stitching packages. Use
sets of images taken as you intend to take them in a professional manner. For indoor panoramas particularly,
you need to use not only a tripod but some sort of panorama head. For a single row of images, this need not
be expensive. All you need is a bracket of some sort to move the camera back so that it rotates about the
entrance pupil of the lens (aka the no-parallax point). Once you have your camera properly set up, it's just as
easy and quick to take a good set of images as a bad set. A good set will stitch much more easily and minimize
post-processing to correct stitching problems.
Until you can shoot images properly, you could use some sample images from the 360Precision site in your tests.
See: tinyurl.com/2f9sgh
The D300/Sigma 4.5mm images stitch extremely well in PTgui and no doubt other stitchers too. Why not try
them?
John
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mediavets
Posts: 419
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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etegration
Posts: 169
Location: Singapore
Registered: 28 Jan 2007
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wouter wynen
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium
Registered: 22 Jul 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 16:09 GMT
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Thanks for all the helpfull comments!
Went to a local camera shop this morning, they don't have any pano heads in stock, and the ones they can order are really expensive...
The nodalninja ones look like a good deal. Only wondering if I would need the NN5 or if the NN3 MK2 would be anough for my needs.
I would like to do 2 things:
1. create interior panorama's with the sigma 4.5 lens
2. create hdri maps for use in 3d software (www.aversis.be/hdri/index.htm), also with sigma lens to minimize the number of shots needed (3 shots for 360° x 10 stops each (+-) to create hdr afterwards). Fot this I also want to take a shot straight up to make sure I get the full sky/ceiling as this is really important for the final hdri. In some cases the shot upwards will be all I need as the lower half of the sphere isn't used anyway in the 3d program.
For now I made something myself to be able to shift the camera to the rear, and adjusted the position so it's close to the no paralax point.
Here's the result with Autopano, which I like a lot I must say, and I didn't even use the manual control stuff. I guess to have a perfect match, I should make sure the camera is perfectly level which isn't possible with my self made setup (no water level bubble or whatever it's called) I aimed the cam a bit up also to make sure I get all the ceiling.
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mediavets
Posts: 419
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 16:50 GMT
updated: 23 Jul 2008 at 17:05 GMT
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Check with Nodal Ninja that NN3 is compatible with your Sigma 4.5 FE before you buy, but AFAIK it will be fine.
I bought an NN5 for my D40+Sigma 8mm FE only because I felt it offered the scope to handle any DSLR body and lens that I might ever consider using for panos in the future.
The 'ring' type pano heads, like the 360Precision Atome are of no use to you if you want a +90 shot as they are designed for a single row of shots at zero degrees.
You don't need to have your setup perfectly level.
You can easily level a stitched pano with APP - here's the video tutorial:
www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/How_to_straight...
Andrew
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John Houghton
Posts: 2265
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 16:51 GMT
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wouter wynen said: I guess to have a perfect match, I should make sure the camera is perfectly level which isn't possible with my self made setup
No, that's not necessary. Your camera does not have to be level to get perfect alignment. Spherical pano heads like the NN3 allow the camera to be pointed in any direction whilst maintaining the position of the entrance pupil of the camera lens (though there are compromises with fisheye lenses).
John
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Nick Fan
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 277
Location: Hong Kong
Registered: 26 May 2006
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 17:23 GMT
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wouter wynen said: Thanks for all the helpfull comments!
Went to a local camera shop this morning, they don't have any pano heads in stock, and the ones they can order are really expensive...
The nodalninja ones look like a good deal. Only wondering if I would need the NN5 or if the NN3 MK2 would be anough for my needs.
Instead of NN3/5, NN180 will serve you better.
nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0
simpler construction, easier to use. To be released in Aug/Sep. We will have high quality lens ring pano head in the near future too.
nick
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mediavets
Posts: 419
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 19:18 GMT
updated: 23 Jul 2008 at 19:19 GMT
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Nick Fan said: wouter wynen said: Thanks for all the helpfull comments!
Went to a local camera shop this morning, they don't have any pano heads in stock, and the ones they can order are really expensive...
The nodalninja ones look like a good deal. Only wondering if I would need the NN5 or if the NN3 MK2 would be anough for my needs.
Instead of NN3/5, NN180 will serve you better.
nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0
simpler construction, easier to use. To be released in Aug/Sep. We will have high quality lens ring pano head in the near future too.
nick
Nick, I believe the NN180 is a single row head and the OP wishes to be able to take a zenith shot at +90.
So I think the NN180 is not a suitable choice?
Andrew
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Nick Fan
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 277
Location: Hong Kong
Registered: 26 May 2006
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Re: stitching fisheye images from sigma 4.5mm
Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 0:24 GMT
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mediavets said:
Nick, I believe the NN180 is a single row head and the OP wishes to be able to take a zenith shot at +90.
So I think the NN180 is not a suitable choice?
Andrew
Andrew,
you are right. NN180 is a single row pano head. but sigma 4.5mm is a circular fisheye and is wide enough to cover the zenith.
nick
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