Nikos Giannakopoulos
Posts: 83
Location: Athens, Greece
Registered: 10 Jan 2008
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Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 19:20 GMT
updated: 12 Jul 2008 at 19:22 GMT
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I'm trying for at least one hour but without luck!! when I press the optimize button the panes just look like a mess and I can't get any natural look at all!
Just too dizzy to see what I'm doing wrong, and why PTGUI Pro is not doing it right with the first basic steps as it has done so far with many panoramas...
rapidshare.com/files/129203273/panoweird.rar.html
(4 shots and 1 zenith with 350D and sigma 8mm)
If someone has time... give it a try... I quit for today on this one!
Thanx in advance for any help... this might bring out some more specific adjustments as it concerns various values or what can I say... I give up!
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Ayman
Posts: 23
Location: Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
Registered: 5 Jul 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:08 GMT
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Hi Nikos,
is it possible to upload your file in another website since RS has many issues regarding public/shared IPs. I cannot download it.
regards,
Ayman
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mediavets
Posts: 420
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:16 GMT
updated: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:34 GMT
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Nikos Giannakopoulos said: I'm trying for at least one hour but without luck!! when I press the optimize button the panes just look like a mess and I can't get any natural look at all!
Just too dizzy to see what I'm doing wrong, and why PTGUI Pro is not doing it right with the first basic steps as it has done so far with many panoramas...
rapidshare.com/files/129203273/panoweird.rar.html
(4 shots and 1 zenith with 350D and sigma 8mm)
If someone has time... give it a try... I quit for today on this one!
Thanx in advance for any help... this might bring out some more specific adjustments as it concerns various values or what can I say... I give up!
I thought images shot with Sigma 8mm on Canon cropped sensor cameras were cropped on all 4 sides but not with your images it seems.
Main reason you are having trouble stitching this IMO is that it was shot all wrong.
If you had tilted the camera up and not down - so that just the edge of the rotator of your pano head was in view - then you would have had coverage at the zenith I think without the zenith shot plus any attempt to place control points automatically would not be 'confused' by the pano head appearing at the nadir in every shot in the main row. Make sure you don't have CPs on the pano head!
Another tip - if you are shooting a rather featureless ceiling, or one with reapeting elements like this, instead of shooting a zenith at +90 try shooting at about +60. You will still cover the zenith but are much more likely to get a good link to features in the main row of images making the stitch much easier.
So, for example, if I had been shooting this scene with my Nikon DX DSLR (with its, DX, 1.6x crop sensor) and Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE on my NN5 head I'd have shot 4-around at +5 and a 'zenith' at about +60. The 'hole' at the nadir would be no larger than the rotator of my pano head. A similar technique (slightly 'adjusted' to take accont of the different size of the Canon 1.5x crop sensor) would work for you too.
There's lots of movement in the scene too - yet you chose a long exposure of 5 seconds at ISO 100. I'd have increased the ISO to increase the shutter speed and probably risked a larger aperture too, even so with this much movement you'd need to shoot fast to avoid 'ghosting'.
Anyway it can be stitched - I did it with Autopano Pro, it is not a perfect stitch but it's not far off and I'd had enough of fiddling with it at this point:
Andrew
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Nikos Giannakopoulos
Posts: 83
Location: Athens, Greece
Registered: 10 Jan 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:47 GMT
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Thanx mediavets for your time...
Well I figured out that I must have turned downwards the camera more than -15° degrees than I always use...
I' m doing it the way Eric suggests on "A smaller hole on the nadir = less work in Photoshop" at page: www.fromparis.com/html/technical.php
AutoPano did a very nice job on that though... is this not possible with PTGUI at all?
Ayman sorry but I don't have space to upload it elsewhere on the time being.
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mediavets
Posts: 420
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:57 GMT
updated: 12 Jul 2008 at 20:59 GMT
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Nikos Giannakopoulos said: Thanx mediavets for your time...
Well I figured out that I must have turned downwards the camera more than -15° degrees than I always use...
I' m doing it the way Eric suggests on "A smaller hole on the nadir = less work in Photoshop" at page: www.fromparis.com/html/technical.php
AutoPano did a very nice job on that though... is this not possible with PTGUI at all?
Eric's notion is sound - I follow his idea too - but I think he was using a different lens? For example with my fullframe 10.5mm FE I need about -10 for the main row, but with the Sigma it is about +5. Anyway just tilt up or down (in your case I think it will be up) so that just the outer edge of the pano head rotator is in view at the bottom of each image. A small experiment will determine the tilt needed.
Of course it can be stitched with PTGui - I used APP becaue that's the stitcher I use. You'll probably have to place CPs manually, (I had to add and adjust CPs manually with APP because of the nature of scene and the way it was shot) but there are only 5 images and you don't need many CPs per image pair, and make sure you don't place any on the pano head!
Regards,
Andrew
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bigwade
Posts: 261
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 at 23:51 GMT
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Nikos,
try this:
tinyurl.com/6y3zca
it's a ptgui .pts file for your project.
It is bad shot with too many movements and auto cp's are not possible.
The .pts is a good start to finetune it the way you want it.
Have Fun !
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 714
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 0:11 GMT
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Nikos,
Andrew has stitched and blended your panorama with APP and posted a reasonable equirectangular image, but what about all that blurring due to people moving about. Well it may be what you wanted. Certainly makes for a dynamic composition, but if it’s not what you want, here are a couple of tips for minimising the risk of it happening in future.
1. Instead of 4-around, take 5- or even 6-around instead. This will increase the redundant areas in the overlap, thus increasing the probability of removing transient objects (moving people) in PS with alpha channel masks if one of the adjacent overlaps is free of the moving object. At the same time it makes stitching easier.
2. Why stop at 360 degrees. Having gone around once, go around again, and if you think it will help, again, and if you see something (someone) you like moving into the frame, take an individual shot (or two) of it (him/her).
Drag the lot into APP (I’ve not tried this with PTGui – but suppose it’s much the same) and when satisfied with the preview save all layers. If the resulting blended layer isn’t exactly what you want, have a look at the individual layers. You might find something (someone) there you want to bring to the front to improve your composition. Conversely, you might want to hide something behind the blended layer.
I’m no technical guru, and my descriptions a bit wordy, but these methods work and increase the probability of getting just what you want.
Mark
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spyboy
Posts: 239
Location: New Hampton, NH, United States
Registered: 7 Oct 2006
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 1:04 GMT
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I shoot multiple shots at a particular angle, if while I'm shooting at the park, people walk into frame.
I'll also shoot multiples if I'm in a tight spot and can't get behind the camera. I squeeze off to one side and shoot, and then try to get as far over on the other side and shoot the shot again (hoping my feet and/or shadows don't overlap the first image)
I run those images in Photoshop to produce a clean "no human" shot.
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michael medina
Posts: 269
Location: portland, oregon, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 6:03 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 6:07 GMT
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i have a ptgui file here that blended flawlessley with enblend here:
pdxvr.com/other/nikos.pts
based on the nadir, it looks like your camera is a good bit off to the left.
mmm
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photo41
Posts: 173
Location: Stamora Romana - Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Dec 2007
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 7:02 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 7:16 GMT
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Hi Nikos,
I think the problem was - as stated before - that there were control points on the tripod.
Besides the very good advice Mark gave, I add the following: try to take more pictures than necessary, repeat them so later you may have opportunity to choose/eliminate what persons/objects you like to eliminate/keep.
Here's my try:
regards,
Valentin
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John Houghton
Posts: 2269
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 7:06 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 7:08 GMT
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Nikos Giannakopoulos said: I'm trying for at least one hour but without luck!! when I press the optimize button the panes just look like a mess and I can't get any natural look at all!(
Nikos, Michael's pts file (posted above) also produces a messed up result when the optimizer is run. The Image
Parameters tab shows the camera was tilted down 21 degrees. The result is that the pano head bottom arm is
captured at the bottom of the images. In Michael's project, for images 0-3 there are control points placed
on the panohead arm. The arm is naturally in the same position in each shot because it rotates along with the
camera. Those control points must be removed. You might have had the same problem. There are other points in the
cp table without distance values that should be removed. (I didn't investigate those). The project then optimizes
ok.
John
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Nikos Giannakopoulos
Posts: 83
Location: Athens, Greece
Registered: 10 Jan 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 8:02 GMT
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Mark thanx for your tips, but blurring was my intention 
bigwade and Michael thank you both very much for your pts files! Along with other's comments, I understood better some settings. Michael yes, I must recalibrate my pano head along with my camera/lens.
photo 41 and John yes the main problem was "that there were control points on the tripod" but I didn't have the mind yesterday to investigate all panes against all panes...
Thank you all... I think that I just learnt more upon ptgui settings today.
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mediavets
Posts: 420
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 8:16 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 8:20 GMT
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Nikos Giannakopoulos said:
Thank you all... I think that I just learnt more upon ptgui settings today.
But have you taken on board any tips about how to shoot better in the first place - so that in future you can avoid many of the problems you experienced when stitching? 
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Nikos Giannakopoulos
Posts: 83
Location: Athens, Greece
Registered: 10 Jan 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 8:38 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 8:42 GMT
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mediavets said: But have you taken on board any tips about how to shoot better in the first place - so that in future you can avoid many of the problems you experienced when stitching?
Well all my other panoramas stitch just fine when I shoot at -15°. That way the pano arm is not in sight (only the green bubble leveler that ptgui does not create CP on that) and the nadir area around the tripod does not have major vignetting problems as it concerns image quality. I always shoot a zenith shot at +90° without any problems and a nadir shot as described at
"An alternative of the technique above when space is limited." [ rosaurophotography.com/html/technical6.html ]
This is just a way that works for me so far.
Shooting at more than -15° downwards and not investigating all panes and their CPs is what the major problem was as it concerns ptgui settings upon this specific panorama posted here.
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michael medina
Posts: 269
Location: portland, oregon, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2008
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Re: Please help me blend this panorama...!
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 at 9:08 GMT
updated: 13 Jul 2008 at 9:16 GMT
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oops 
i tried one more thing before i saved it and i guess i forgot to undo those changes.
i've fixed it now and i've replaced the bad one with a good one, same link.
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