Steven Scott
Posts: 38
Location: Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 7 Jun 2008 at 20:44 GMT
updated: 7 Jun 2008 at 20:53 GMT
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For now, I want to shoot just 180 degree panoramics. I was thinking about buying a Manfrotto horizontal plate (828 or 131DB arm) that attaches via 3/8 thread to a tripod. I then can attach two (2) digital cameras, and make sure there is overlap.
Anyone doing this?
I did a search here and found nothing.
Using Breeze Systems software, it is easy to "trigger" both cameras simultaneously. With some overlap, will this work? In theory ... it seems it should.
But I thought I'd ask.
I'll be using two Canon G9 cameras, both with wide angle lens on Panosauru heads, with exact nodal point.
Thank you most kindly,
steve
P.S. My purpose? I want, desperately, to capture a wide beach scene with moving waves. As wide as possible. If it works, I'll move up to Canon XSi or Canon 40D's.
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 7 Jun 2008 at 22:21 GMT
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Steven
You may have a stitching problem with objects fairly close to the cameras because photos from two side bt side cameras won't have the same nodal point.
Objects in the distance shouldn't be a problem though
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 819
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 7 Jun 2008 at 22:27 GMT
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Even if you use the cameras in landscape and a very small overlap you will only get 120 degrees with 2 images.
Hans
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Steven Scott
Posts: 38
Location: Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 7 Jun 2008 at 22:30 GMT
updated: 7 Jun 2008 at 22:31 GMT
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Oh.
Doug ... you are right!
Basically, the panos will be "distant landscape" scenes. So, it might work. No indoor panos.
I'm going to order the Manfrotto 828 horizontal plate. It's only about $70US. I can take a G9 from my store to run the test. I'll let you know how it goes.
Lastly .... yesterday, I received the Manfrotto 269 HDBU 25-foot tripod. Have a 3229 head, with a Panorsaurus pano head and G9. Starting to shoot panos from 10 feet and above. It gets scary at 25 feet! Will let you know how it goes! Best to you, Doug.
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Steven Scott
Posts: 38
Location: Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 7 Jun 2008 at 22:33 GMT
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Hans, you're right. Thanks.
If it works .... I'll add another G9 and test it again!
The Manfrotto 131DDB allows for up to four (4) cameras. The Breeze Systems software will operate up to five (5) cameras. Nothing else --- this "test" should be interesting.
Side note: The owner won't let me try it with DSLR's. He will only let me test this with G9's for now.
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Peter Patricelli
Posts: 114
Location: Eugene, OR, United States
Registered: 20 Dec 2006
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 0:42 GMT
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Steven,
You are going to a LOT of trouble to solve the "problem" of moving waves.
Starting at:
www.flyfishingfotography.com/hookipa_024.htm
the following 8 pictures are 180 panos constructed out of 4-5 handheld shots at Hookipa, HI. These are much bigger breakers than you are likely to find on Maui. In the preceeding shots there are a mix of single shots and (handheld) multi-row conposites. My point is you can see how moving breakers come out when there are multiple shots. In many cases you are not able to really see a difference. And when you can, it is minor.
In my experience the situation where the wave action complicates a multi-shot pano is when there is a relatively close, flat beach with a large wave incursion and runoff. Then, with multiple shots, you might end up with 30' or more of wave that is missing from the adjacent shot. But then you could play the timing game.
If your shots are going to be so distant that there will not be a parallax problem, then I doubt you'll see enough detail of the breakers that you will see the difference.
But, every situation is different. Let us know how this works out.
Peter Patricelli
www.flyfishingfotography.com
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John Houghton
Posts: 2265
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 15:32 GMT
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I think Peter's panoramas serve to illustrate what the problem is rather than offering a solution. I've been confronted with the same problems myself and have often resorted to taking a patching shot with the camera rotated so that the diagonal of the frame is horizontal in order to have the maximum fov. Another solution if your camera supports a reasonably fast burst mode is to simply swing the camera smoothly round as you fire off a burst of shots. My 40D will do 3-4 raw frames/sec, and with the shutter at 1/1000th, ISO400 and f/5.6, in bright sunlit scenes you can get a series of up to 18 sharp shots with no signs of camera shake. Given the small time interval between adjacent shots, these should capture waves reasonably adequately, though I haven't actually tried that yet.
John
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Steven Scott
Posts: 38
Location: Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 18:54 GMT
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Yes, John, I've played a bit with this function. The G9 shoots about 1.7fps ... the XSi is 3.5fps and, of course, the 40D is 6.5fps (jpeg) and slower for RAW. I'll try it some more. The slower speed of the G9 causes me to "catch" movement as a move it around.
I have a zillion panos like Peter's .... and his is very good ... but it is from the side. Those always work. I want one straight ahead. If anyone is familar with Peter Lik (he has a gallery about 35 strides from my camera store) .... he is someone I am trying to emulate. He is good because of his equipment. Huge pano-size film camera that's $45,000. Uses Filters!
Thanks to all.
steve
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Terrywoodenpic
Posts: 81
Location: Saddleworth, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 Jul 2006
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 20:16 GMT
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I doubt he is good just because of his equipment.
He is good because he thought about his vision and how to achieve it. It works for him.
You seem to be thinking, and I hope you arrive at your answer.
However have you got your own vision? if all you want to do is match his, it can only ever be a starting point, not a destination.
There must be some aspects he can't do with his kit.
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Terrywoodenpic
Posts: 81
Location: Saddleworth, United Kingdom
Registered: 5 Jul 2006
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 20:30 GMT
updated: 8 Jun 2008 at 20:37 GMT
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an answer to the problem of multiple cameras might lay in a similar direction to the early tricolour one shot plate cameras made by lumier.
These divided the image into three and recorded it on to separate plates. what you want to do is similar but with the images consecutive, covering the whole field, rather than in register of the same view.
This shows the Vivex camera
www.users.waitrose.com/~felice/portrait4.htm
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Steven Scott
Posts: 38
Location: Lahaina, Maui, Hawaii, United States
Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 8 Jun 2008 at 22:14 GMT
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Terry,
Thanks for the message. Yea, my vision is (obviously) not P. Lik's vision. First, I want more "natural" images. His famous pano of a Mau'i beach with a purple sky is a bit strange for us that live here. Never seen a purple sky.
My whole issue summed-up: We have tradewinds that keep us cool. The good news. But the bad news ... is the waves, clouds, palm trees, etc. are always MOVING !
It's rare we have no wind here. Sure --- we do, but not as often as you think. Everything is always moving.
So, I thought it might be worthwhile to experiment with a two-camera set-up --- and see what happens. It's only going to cost me about $70US to try it out!
Love everyone's suggestions and comments !
steve
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michael przewrocki
Posts: 719
Location: basel, Switzerland
Registered: 19 Nov 2004
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Re: Using Two (2) Cameras Side-By-Side For 180 Pano? Anyone?
Posted: 9 Jun 2008 at 2:04 GMT
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at art-basel yesterday i have seen a maybe 1x5m pan showing prisoners of ZA certainly made with a roundshot. it was goodmann-gallery. i have still have my doubts that one can get similar quality with any of the dslrs. beside panorama, one guy copied andreas gursky(worlds most expensive prints) shooting stockexchange dubai (AE). how boring. do you remember my last years statement about the gigapixel-camera(or similar) the very large(too large) camera he cannot carry-around to the right löcations. that boring landscape-big-print/very sharp-at least as sharp as gurskys-was worth 32000 usd. i wonder why so much people are investing their time with dslr-shooting wonderful pan oramas to find out at the end that really big prints are impossible to get without shooting hundreds of parts(mosaicing). look at mathias taugwalder. its a relative of the famous climber who has survived an accident during the matterhorn-first attempt.
he had to shoot hundreds of pan-parts at aletschhorn(4195m a SL) to fit in a large-6m-diameter rotunde shown at eggishorn(VS).switzerland. vernissage july 19. www.concept360.ch/
i wonder how he did the people-shooting.
btw: the aletschhorn can be seen at the right side of my 3d-stereo-aeropanorama
www.europanorama.ch.vu
when i have time you will see a second shot-nearer to the sphin highest railway-station in europe) looking down the impressive glacier(aletschgletscher). the region is unesco-heritage. its a must-go. if not that high at least go to the oppossite-not where taugwalder was shooting. in the back of the helicopter is piz-gloria(james bond-george lazemby)-rotating restaurant at schilthorn(mürren BE)-bernese alps near interlaken/near berne-swiss capital. if you can afford helicopter. 25min cost 1000 chf. you can see and shoot a lot. even panoramas if you have the right rotapancamera(handholdable). be aware of noblex. wind will stop the drum from rotating. a good working horizon s3-pro(new production) could do the job very well. 6m long panoramas are no problem. had been tested with velvia i would not use slidefilm but colornegative.
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