ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 12:34 GMT
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Howdy from Toledo Ohio!
Trying to upgrade into High Resolution Virtual Tours. I am currently a 0-360 lens user (hardly successful, but made enough to upgrade), and want to be able to offer High Resolution Virtual Tours as an option. WOW, what a learning curve  !
I have been reading this forum for the last 3 months making sure I make the right purchases the 1st time around, and avoid the problems I suffered with getting started with 0-360 lens   .
I have decided to go with Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG <not yet ordered (awaiting funding), Manfrotto 755B MDeVe Aluminum Tripod <shipping today (want a good foundation), Nodal Ninja 5 Panoramic Tripod Head (Highly recomended on this site and next on my purchase list), PTgui <already purchased (Also Highly recomended), already own Photoshop cs3 (not to fluent at it yet), and a Triple Axis Spirit Camera Hot Shoe Level (hey, I wanted to get started on the purchases, and it was the only thing I could afford! ) While I'm waiting for funding, I'm doing the tutorials found on www.johnhpanos.com. (might as well figure out the software while waiting for the hardware!) I will attempt to practise the photography with my current Olympus E500 to learn the Nordal Ninga 5, and not expecting a whole lot.
So, with that being said, I am looking for Published Virtual Tours from other users (other than johnpanos.com) of the Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG setup. From my untrained eye, his (johnpanos.com's) published tours are AWESOME (my GOLD standard) compaired to a lot of others I have seen on the Internet (I AM NOT SAYING FROM THIS SITE!!!), and I want to know if I can expect the same results as a newbee because of the hardware/software combination, or should I expect to completely slaughter my 1st 1000 Virtual Tours? I agree it all depends on my ability to learn, I just want to see what others have published with the setup. I promise not to critique anyone, I just want to see other peoples results with this setup.
If I have missed something important (Hardware/Software), please let me know! I will have to prioitize it. Camera choise is based upon the fact I can't afford full frame and the Canon is best bang for the buck, and johnpanos.com got it to work to my expectations! I want to learn all I can NOW, so when I get the camera and lens, I can focus on learning them.
Thanks for your help!
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ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 12:36 GMT
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OOPS, forgot to mention Tourweaver which I am currently using with the 0-360 Lens. I love Tourweaver!!!!!
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ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 12:43 GMT
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Let me clairify the lens... a Sigma 8mm f/3.5 EX DG
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1671
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 14:50 GMT
updated: 12 May 2008 at 14:52 GMT
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Steve
You may not need to do a 1000 before you get good, but maybe a 100.
From what you posted, your improvement will be in 3 phases;
1) Getting the stitching right
2) The actual photography with Photoshop editing
3) Then maybe High Dynamic Range Imaging/Tonemapping
I started out using iPIX's Real Estate Tour product and a Coolpix 800 and the FC-E8 lens. iPIX's earlier bent netal and plastic cradle rotators were not very solid and alignment at the Zenith was always a problem.
Once I moved up to the Coolpix 5400 and one of iPIX's solid metal rotators, stitching became a non-issue.
Then I leaned how to maximixe the settings on tha camera followed by improving my skills with Photoshop, both to improve the look of my virtual images.
For tha last 18 months I've been working with HDR/Tone Mapping/Enfuse to further improve my work. Also fine tuning my Photoshop technique
I've bought a Canon Xti/400D, Sigma 8mm f/3.5 and a Nodal Ninja 3 to use in my high priced, non-real estate work. It took me a year to save up to buy each piece.
It sounds like you've done your research well and are on the right path.
Where in Ohio are you?
I have family in Toledo/Perrysburg, just outside Columbus and down in Logan & Lancaster.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 15:14 GMT
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I live in Holland Ohio, just outside Toledo Ohio! Google "The Flying Bean Perrysburg Ohio" if you would like to see the area! I will show up #2! Its all shot with 0-360 lens. If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to become efficient at this? I'm starting to wonder if I can grasp everthing fast enough so I can at least publish a High Res Panoramic of hell freezing over 
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 15:41 GMT
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Steve
I stuggled for a long time until I upgraded from the iPIX Real Estate Wizard shoftware (very basic, but inexpensive) to the iPIX Interactive Studio.
With it I could put the stitched images into other layouts, like a Cubic Strip, and could edit them in Photoshop.
The iIS didn't use iPIX's old "key" model, so I could experiment and do images over again if I didn't like the results.
I haven't had much time to learn how to use my Canon/Sigma/Nodal Ninja setup so I can't really guess how long it will take.
The way I look at it is I'm practicing on every home I shoot and getting paid for it.
Here a real estate tour I just did
media.homestore.com/HBCFTJFK.htm
My step-mother and brother live in Perrysburg and my half-brother lives in Maumee. When ever I visit I have to go get Coney Island Hot Dogs from either Rudy's or Tony Pacos
Keep in touch
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 15:55 GMT
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Uh, Tony Packo's! I have Packo's At the Park on my site, I really should update thier viewer!! For some reason they won't let me in the Original location
As far as High Res goes, all I need to do is sit down and learn it. Its a bit intimidating, but I have come a long way in 4 years considering I'm a mechanic by trade, and still is one. I got into this Virtual Tour stuff as a way out of wrenching. I'm not a patent man, just a really darned stuborn one, and when I make up my mind to do something, I'll figure it out.
Thanks for your input!
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 16:28 GMT
updated: 12 May 2008 at 16:38 GMT
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Steve
I've thought the Toledo area would lend itself to a City Tour website like my VirtualAlbuquerque.com and VirtualSantaFe.com sites.
(I might be overly optimistic in that I have family there)
A lot of the river scenes would be great. Fifth Third Stadium is nice, "main street" Perryburg is nice too and I like the look of the old movie theater in Maumee. St Roses Church is gorgeous if they'd let you shoot it
The sites have been a great way to show off my work and are starting to make a little movey on their own.
Who does your website?
High Res is mostly a benefit of higher resolution cameras and with a narrower Field of View is takes more 10MP shots to cover the interior of a sphere. Think of "tiling" the inside of a sphere with 10mp images that overlap
To be honest "High Res Full-Screen" images aren't very practical commercially. Few customers like the ides of covering their website with the image, just like they don't cover it it up will still photos.
Most people don't like to "color ouside the lines" 
An image that's intended to be displayed a 800x600 is big enough to fit most website's page height and witdth.
So don't get to focused on "Full-Screen High Res"
"Pacos" would be the "spanish" spelling, right
Take care
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 17:32 GMT
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Steve
I've been working on an eBook called Introduction to Virtual Photography and touch on the subject of the One-Shot systems
Am I correct that you get a "doughnut" shaped image and would you be willing to provide me with one I can use in the eBook
Thanx
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 12 May 2008 at 17:36 GMT
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Steve
One other suggestion.
When you buy your Sigma 8mm f/3.5 you might check with NormanCamera.com in Kalamazoo.
I bought mine from them for US$609 and they had free shipping on it.
Just checked and they have the same offer online now
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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ThreeSixtySteve
Posts: 16
Location: Ohio, United States
Registered: 7 May 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 13 May 2008 at 1:07 GMT
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Doug,
I started out with 0-360VirtualTours.Com, however to make a long story short, after publishing the website, business cards, postcards, and marketing materials, I needed help with something from the lens maker 0-360.com, who helped me with the problem and along with it sent a cease and desist letter for name infringment. It worked out in the long run because getting people to type it right was darned near impossible, so that is why I chose the acronym 3 6 0 I P T. I have thought of trying VirtualTourToledo and 360Toledo, but after my 1st lession, didn't want to run into the same problem.
I built and maintain my own website. Its INTENT is to be a "Cookie Cutter" look, with more personal looks available to those willing to pay for it. Right now I am offering free Virtual Tour Business Directory Listings for 1 year to locally owned and operated businesses, using the 1 shot system. (Moderately successful) I want to offer a High Res option for clients that want it, but must pay up front. I will do site seeing tours within the Greater Toledo Region using the High Res, to help sell it.
I think the way I am currently publishing my Tourweaver Viewers (in the business directory in green highlight), the High Res will work out just fine & the cool thing is that with the Java option, if they click on the viewer, it automatically goes full screen, it just looks like crap with the One Shot!
Thanks for your input
360Steve
By the way, I spelled it right: www.tonypackos.com
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 13 May 2008 at 14:59 GMT
updated: 13 May 2008 at 15:19 GMT
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Steve
iPIX had a similar policy about using their trademarked name as part of a domain/buisness anme without permission. They didn't charge to use it, if they approaved, they just wanted to make sure it was a professional looking site that reflected well on there product.
I decided on VirtualAlbuquerque.com and later bought the name VirtualSantaFe.com becasue if could change technologies and not be stuck with the domain name.
The only problem with your domain name is its a bit cryptic. I just looked to find out what the letter stood for and was surprised the "T" doesn't stand for "Toledo"
I did a quick check and "TourofToledo.com" is available. A quick search on Google for that phrase finds many uses of it but none as a website or business name. The phrase was just used in a sentence or as the title of a page. With name like that, web visitors would immediately know what the site was about. I'm trying to buy VisitAlbuquerque.com from a Realtor who bought it when the Albuquerque Convention Bureau let it go. The name VisitAlbuquerque.com would be less technology oriented and more tourist/visitor focuses. Tourism is a big part of our economy
There's a webesite based out of Toledo called www.LakeErieCrossRoads.com that is a bit of a "tour" of the metro area, but needs to be expanded and virtual images would really make it different. The only reason I know about is is they print a "birds-eye-view" poster of the Lake Erie Cross Roads that I have a copy of. I collect "birds-ete-view" posters. In fact there's one of Albuquerque that gave me the idea to navigate VirtualAlbuquerque.com from a map of the city.
I'm going to look though your site a little more this weekend to get a better feel for it.
The Tourweaver viewers are basicly just their proprietary version of the Java based freeware PTViewer, PURE Player and iPIX's Java Viewer, and works fine. But you're right about the images getting better with images from the Canon/Sigma setup. This link is what I've been doing in the way of offering a "Standard" size image (400-500KB) for general and dial-up use as well as "Super-Size" images (1MB +/-) for broadband and patient dial-up users.
www.do222.com/iPIXIndex.htm
You can see the same thing on the Albuquerque Balloon Museum Feature Page on VirtualAlbuquerque.com
Once you spelled "Packos" for me, I knew I had the last name wrong. I was just being a smart-alec suggesting was the spanish spelling because we have so many people of hispanic decent here in the southwest. I need to order some meat sauce online. We don't have real Coney Island Hot Dogs out here. They think a hot dog with chili and onions is a Coney, go figure
Keep in touch
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Doug Aurand
Posts: 711
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 13 May 2008 at 15:31 GMT
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Steve
I forgot, you were looking for virtual image sample taken with a Canon/Sigma 8mm setup
In the Panoguide Gallery there's a test shot I did of the Ampitheater at the Veterans Memorial here in ALbuquerque.
Just go to Gallery and search for "Veterans." It got a little over-compressed when I uploaded it, but it came out nice.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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mhc1
Posts: 186
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Registered: 29 Dec 2005
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Re: Canon EOS 40D & Fisheye 8mm f/3.5 EX DG Users
Posted: 13 May 2008 at 23:44 GMT
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Steve
I am using the sane gear now- upgrade from a Nikon D80//Sigma 8 F3.5
Consider a "Slant" by 60°- it is the best improvement you even can make - with this combination.
I just made some pole-panos within trees in blossom: not easy to stitch, that´s because 3m swing very much, wind moves branches and objects are as close as 15-20cm.
But slanted it was easy to do with 6 shots, even levelled.
There was a discussion in a German forum about slanting or not, also in the PanotoolsNG.
You can do easy and good panos with 4 shots, though 3 are possible but have only 3-4% of overlap and will use the critical areas of the lens.
Unslanted you will find out holes in zenith & nadir.
If requested, I can supply links to 3 testprojects with and without slant and with 5° up. (don´t have access to the server here, must go into the office then)
ciao
mike
www.360de.de
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