mhc1
Posts: 102
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Registered: 29 Dec 2005
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Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 28 Mar 2008 at 8:03 GMT
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Hello,
I am using a Canon 40D with Sigma 8 F 3.5.
Does it make sense also to use a Tokina 10-17 Fisheye ?
i.e. ere the results remarkable better ?
I shoot 4 or 6 around and sometimes a nadir shot.
What would I expect ?
The panos should be remarkable sharper & clearer.
If someone has any knowledge about this - please tell me.
Certainly the Tokina fits into my lens equimpent as a extrem widw-angle - but this is only secod.
If there is no remakable increase - then I will not take my hands on that lens.
For my opinion the Nikon 10 was remarkable better than the Sigma 8mm F3.5 on my Nikon gear.
Thanks for any advice.
Ciao
Mike
www.360de.de
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Robert Piontek
Posts: 88
Location: Germany
Registered: 26 Jul 2007
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 30 Mar 2008 at 21:17 GMT
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Hi Mike - I will chime in since nobody else has. I can't tell you if the Tokina is better quality than the Sigma, but you should be able to find plenty of reviews.
But, if what you really want is a 'sharp' image, probably the best thing is to use a longer focal length lens, so that it forces you to take more images. If you do a two row pano with a normal wide lens, you will have a much higher possible final resolution. When you resize downward, any lens issues will be less noticable at the lower resolution.
Other things to consider... are you sharpening your images at some point? If you shoot jpegs, you can probably choose the level of sharpening that is applied in the camera. If you shoot RAW, you will probably need to sharpen the images at some point in your workflow. Also, most lenses are sharper as you close the aperture. Find out what is the best aperture for the lens your using, and try to use that if possible. Sorry if you know all this! Just some ideas for you.
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John Houghton
Posts: 1999
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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mediavets
Posts: 128
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 9:08 GMT
updated: 31 Mar 2008 at 9:09 GMT
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There doesn't seem to be much difference to my eye.
Andrew
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1554
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 9:15 GMT
updated: 31 Mar 2008 at 9:20 GMT
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John very useful samples, thanks!
A bit of a question, them was automatically stitch by PTGui? I mean with no manual CP?
the winner is, in my eyes, tokina @ 14
Dorin
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John Houghton
Posts: 1999
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 9:36 GMT
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Dorin, They are not automatic stitches, though the control points were automatically generated (with a few manual corrections). The viewpoint nadirs were patched in with PTEditor as the gravel path is at a lower level than the paving and needed a separate adjustment to make it align. I haven't inspected the panoramas closely for stitching errors as the general image quality was the prime interest here.
John
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1554
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 10:15 GMT
updated: 31 Mar 2008 at 10:18 GMT
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Thanks, I was only curious if the result was from automatic (except nadir)
For tokina 10-17 it changes the NPP at zoom?
I stated a while ago that 10-17 or other fish eye zoom will be the ideal lens for making pano as sometimes is need for increasing of resolution for lateral areas and less need for up and down, except when important decoration are on ceiling but even then the nadir is too close,so one can try to use different zoom at taking the photos accordingly but I haven't the chance to use/try it. As you probably know in Deval the cubic faces can be indicated as source for a pano and they can be of different sizes in pixels.
Thanks again,
Dorin
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John Houghton
Posts: 1999
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 10:54 GMT
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Dirin, The NPP does not change significantly from 10-15mm. There's a small change of a mm or two zooming up to 17mm.
John
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 596
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:15 GMT
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There is no real visible change in NPP when zooming with the Tokina.
I just made a test using the Tokina at 10mm and at 17mm.
It was made by first taking the 10mm pano with 3+1 zenith and then I zoomed in to 17mm and made a 6+1 panorama at 17mm.
I can see no visible difference in parallax at centre parts.
The idea with this is to be able to merge the 2 panos by using parts of the 10mm blended into the high resolution (after interpolation).
I had the idea many years ago and recently Jook came up with the same for using it for example to be able to catch the full sky with moving clouds in 1 image and do the rest of the pano in higher resolution.
I managed to stitch the 2 equirectangular together in PTGui by using manual controlpoints. PTgui refuses to do autocontrolpoints between 2 equirectangular images put it optimizes the manual ones.
Even when looking at the high resolution result it is not easy to see that the ceiling in my panorama was interpolated from 7000 to 12000.
Regarding increasing quality for a pano at 6000x3000 you will only get a visible difference if you compare a Sigma 8mm on a 6mp camera with a larger resolution downsampled to 6000x3000.
Remember the 70% rule.
Hans
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John Houghton
Posts: 1999
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:36 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: Remember the 70% rule.
Hans, I have difficulty remembering something I've never heard of. (And a search of these forums did not come up with anything either). What is it?
John
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mediavets
Posts: 128
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:38 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: Remember the 70% rule.
Hans
Forgive my ignorance - but what is the '70% rule'?
Andrew
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1554
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:44 GMT
updated: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:50 GMT
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I guess Hans mean about to spend 70% in core business and the rest in innovations in that technique
Dorin
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 596
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 11:54 GMT
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Simply said it is based on the fact that the sensors used in most Digital Cameras in reality does not have the resolution they say. It is interpolated.
This was explained by Ken Turkowski many years ago.
Quote from the interview at VRMag:
'This is because the Bayer pattern found on most digital camera sensors interpolates up to 30% of the image resolution.”
ttp://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/AN_INTERVIEW_W...
Hans
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 596
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 12:19 GMT
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Damned
This is almost 1984 by Orwell
www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=panoguide++70%25+rule+&btnG=Search
12 minutes ago it said.
Instant surveillance
How do I get them to update Panoramas.dk like this.
Hans
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1554
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Does this combination make sense ??
Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 12:41 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: Damned
This is almost 1984 by Orwell
www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=panoguide++70%25+rule+&btnG=Search
12 minutes ago it said.
Instant surveillance
How do I get them to update Panoramas.dk like this.
Hans
Maybe forums are on different surveillance as changes are on minute by minute basis, Maybe panoramas.dk need a forum 
Dorin
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