Slyíng
Posts: 7
Location:
Registered: 1 Jan 2008
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stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 16:24 GMT
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Hi, sorry for my english(i speak spanish). I have a startup (similar to everyscape.com) I need to create panoramic moving (top of a car). I buy 3 cameras xti 400D and 3 sigma 4.5mm. Maybe i can use the mrotatorR "one shot" (for 3 cameras), but i dont know.Let me know if you come up with some way of being able to stich photos of different cameras (parallax)(different nodal point) with PTGui or other.. Everyscape.com use 4 cameras : stich automatically?..
Help me 
Thx
Sly, Cristobal
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 17:26 GMT
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Slyíng said: Hi, sorry for my english(i speak spanish). I have a startup (similar to everyscape.com) I need to create panoramic moving (top of a car). I buy 3 cameras xti 400D and 3 sigma 4.5mm. Maybe i can use the mrotatorR "one shot" (for 3 cameras), but i dont know.
I believe the Agno's MroratorR is only compatible with the Sigma 8mm FE - but why don't you ask them?
Perhap you could swap your Sigma 4.5mm FEs for Sigma 8mm FEs?
Andrew
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Slyíng
Posts: 7
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Registered: 1 Jan 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 18:29 GMT
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The camera that uses are not full frame, and therefore need to use 4.5mm to match the same result with full frame cameras with sigma 8mm. We ask to Agnos if it is possible to use the MrotatorR with 4.5 sigma but has not yet responded..
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 19:33 GMT
updated: 8 Mar 2008 at 19:35 GMT
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Slyíng said: The camera that uses are not full frame, and therefore need to use 4.5mm to match the same result with full frame cameras with sigma 8mm. We ask to Agnos if it is possible to use the MrotatorR with 4.5 sigma but has not yet responded..
You are missing the whole 'point' about the MrotatorR (and MrotatorC for that matter) the camera(s) are positioned on a 60-degree roll/tilt and angled up a few degrees so that cropped sensor camera(s) with Sigma 8mm can capture full 360x180 in 3 shots, with 3 cropped FE images - go to Agno's site and download some of their sample image sets - and the documentation for the MrotatorC - and you will see what I mean.
Andrew
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 709
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 21:22 GMT
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I'm a bit confused. You have a nest of three expensive cameras with three expensive lenses resulting in their viewing a full 360 x 180 degrees in one go. Why then do you need a rotating panorama head?
As to stitching programmes I would recommend Autopano 1.4 and PTGui. Stitching images from three identical cameras, identically set-up, should present no problem, as to parallax error, modern programmes are good at correcting for this providing it is within reason. First rule is to ensure there is nothing too close to the lens(es). Anyhow, since you already have the hardware it will be easy enough to test with a free trial from Autopano, I think PTGui may have a trial version too.
Mark
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 21:59 GMT
updated: 8 Mar 2008 at 22:22 GMT
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Mark Schuster said: I'm a bit confused. You have a nest of three expensive cameras with three expensive lenses resulting in their viewing a full 360 x 180 degrees in one go. Why then do you need a rotating panorama head?
It does not need to rotate - all 3 cameras fire simultaneously so it offers essentially a high resolution 'oneshot' solution for 360x180 - MroratorR is just the product name. Of course you could rotate it to get more than 3 images, say 6 in 2'shots' or 9 in 3 'shots' this might enable one chose which images to use to handle potential ghosting issues better etc.
And yes PTGui and Autopano Pro can stitch image sets from the MrotatorR head. The overlaps are small between the 3 images and neither may always automatically detect control points.
You can find sample sets taken in this way on the Agno's web site - a particularly challenging set was taken using a pole from/on a gondola in the middle of the Grand Canal in Venice.
Andrew
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Slyíng
Posts: 7
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Registered: 1 Jan 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 10 Mar 2008 at 14:55 GMT
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Thx to all!
I have my doubts about how pictures were taken Mrotator R. For example according to the exif (Nikon D70, crop factor 1.5,), the first photo was taken at:
Date / Time Original: 2005:03:02 12:15:56.70 +01:00.70
The second photo
2005:03:02 12:16:28.90 +01:00.90
The third picture:
2005:03:02 13:19:55.00 +01:00.00
I assume that the last picture had the wrong time (for the difference) but does another? Does 1 minute difference? The photos would have to be taken at the same time (hence comes with a remote control cameras for 3)
I need to bring them out at the same time, and that will be taken in a car in motion.
Besides the exif reports that the photos were created with Photoshop CS2 (and they say that with PTGUI works to perfection. Is my doubts!
But serious interesting to find a plan of the exact angle and the exact position for 3 cameras, so I can create it
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gus
Posts: 381
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 10 Mar 2008 at 15:56 GMT
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Perhaps the clocks of the 3 cameras were not synchronised to 1s accuracy. The EXIF data is relative to the clock on that particular camera, and Its highly unlikely that all 3 cameras had their times EXACTLY the same.
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 709
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 10 Mar 2008 at 23:06 GMT
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Andrew, you said:
The overlaps are small between the 3 images and neither may always automatically detect control points.
Well I'm not so sure. It would certainly be the case if Sigma 8mm lenses were used on the three 400D cameras with crop factor of 1.6, but the idea is to use the new Sigma 4.5mm fisheyes. I'm not going to do the sums, but I think the HFOV will be more than adequate to provide sufficient overlap for automatic control point palacement.
Moreover, and here I am sticking my neck out, I have the feeling that Autopano is slightly better than PTGui at stitching badly aligned images. Sticking my neck out because it's based on stitching a very small samples of hand-held panoramas.
Mark
P.S. It should be possible to check automatic stitching with just one camera and lens offset the same distance from the centre of a tripod and take three images every 120 degrees.
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 0:06 GMT
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Mark Schuster said: Andrew, you said:The overlaps are small between the 3 images and neither may always automatically detect control points. Well I'm not so sure. It would certainly be the case if Sigma 8mm lenses were used on the three 400D cameras with crop factor of 1.6, but the idea is to use the new Sigma 4.5mm fisheyes.
I was talking about the Agno's MrotatorR and C heads that are designed exclusively for the Sigma 8mm FE with a cropped sensor DSL, built to hold the camera at 60-degrees with an upward tilt for better zenith coverage.
There is no problem at all generating CPs automatically with APP (or I imagine PTgui) if one is using the Sigma 4.5mm FE that will produce a full circular image on a cropped senor DSLR - but those Agno's heads are not designed for that lens.
I can't see why anyone would chose to use the Sigma 4.5mm and a cropped sensor DSLR - over the Sigma 8mm - the resolution of the full circular image will not be too good.
Andrew
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 709
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 8:26 GMT
updated: 11 Mar 2008 at 8:31 GMT
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Andrew said I can't see why anyone would chose to use the Sigma 4.5mm and a cropped sensor DSLR - over the Sigma 8mm - the resolution of the full circular image will not be too good
If what Andrew says is important, then by replacing the three Sigma 4.5mm lenses by three Sigma f/3.5 8mm lenses, and at the same time replace the Canon 400D cameras by Canon 5D cameras (with their closer to full-frame sensors) this would provide both better resolution with less noise and sufficient overlap for automatic stitching, and the readilly available MRotator R could be used without modification.
Naturally the cost will increase considerably.
Mark
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Robert Piontek
Posts: 97
Location: Germany
Registered: 26 Jul 2007
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 10:10 GMT
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This is really cool! I haven't seen a setup like this before. Seems the great advantage would be for scenes with moving objects as long as the shutters fire at exactly the same time.
The disadvantage is the parallax, though.
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 10:31 GMT
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There is no need to mount camera bodies (whether cropped sensor or full frame sensor DSLR or even a compact digital camera) at an angle (roll) on a pano head if the FE lens used gives a full circular image, or if one is willing to shoot more than 3-shots for 360x180 coverage.
Sigma 8mm FE does not give a full circular image on a cropped sensor DSLR.
The Agno's Mrotator C and R heads were designed specifically for use with Sigma 8mm and cropped sensors DSLRs to enable capture of 360x180 scene with just 3 shots - in the case of the MrotatorR 3 simultaneous shots using three cameras on the head - this requires the camera body to be mounted at an angle. The Agno's RingTS lens-clamp style pano head for the Sigma 8mm FE can also be used in this way for 3-shot 360x180 panos.
Andrew
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mediavets
Posts: 401
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: stich with several cameras
Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 10:39 GMT
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Robert Piontek said: This is really cool! I haven't seen a setup like this before. Seems the great advantage would be for scenes with moving objects as long as the shutters fire at exactly the same time.
The disadvantage is the parallax, though.
The Agno's MrotatorR three-camera pano head has been available for several years. I doubt there have been many customers as it would be an expensive setup with three DSLRs and three Sigma 8mm FE lenses.
Shutters will fire simultaneously via special three-headed remote control device.
Parallax? Well if subjects are further away than 100 metres parallax is not an issue for pano shooting.
Take a look at the sample images sets available from download section of the Agno's web site taken with the MrotatorR head and stitch them yorself to determine whether there are issues with parallax in these scenes.
Andrew
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michael przewrocki
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Location: basel, Switzerland
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