Dane Hidden
Posts: 6
Location: palm beach, United States
Registered: 7 Mar 2008
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Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 2:11 GMT
updated: 7 Mar 2008 at 2:17 GMT
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Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71
I'm looking at a bunch of options and I am really hooked on the idea of 3 shot panoramas using 180degree+ lenses. I am thinking of getting a coolpix I think 5700 and an
FC-E9 lens to go with it. I'm just not sure of what software package to go with. this is mostly just for my amusement so I'm really not into spending $1000 for easypano or etc.. I have an older version of PanoramaFactory and would get the latest one in a heartbeat if it supported extreme fisheye lenses. I am also looking at a nikon dslr camera body and the 10.5mm lens but I'd really rather not have to take more then a couple of shots to get the 360 effect as that would make it work and I'm already set with a good career.
Really I guess I would like to know if anyone has an extreme fisheye setup and wouldn't mind trying this software out for me so that I know if it is worth it for me to go the coolpix FC-E9 route or if I sould just get the more versatile dslr and the 10.5mm.
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John Houghton
Posts: 2013
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 11:06 GMT
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Dane, There are several options open to you, but I would suggest that the Spherical Panorama Stitcher is not one of them. I don't think it stands up to the competition. It does contain some sets of fisheye images, though, so you can try it for yourself, and you can use the images for testing the other stitching programs. At < €100 you can choose between:
Hugin - Free
PTGui - €79
Autopano Pro - €99
All three are capable of giving excellent results. Hugin is flexible but not easy to use and not as reliable as PTGui. PTGui is very flexible and easier to use but still will take time to get to grips with. It will meet virtually all your conceivable stitching needs. Autopano Pro is a more automatic stitcher. Not nearly as versatile as PTGui but easier to use. It won't stitch everything, but will do most of what you want to do. Not necessarily any quicker than using PTGui, though. You can browse through the thread at www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/4421/ for opinions on Autopano Pro. For PTGui, there's a beginner's tutorial at www.johnhpanos.com/ptgtut.htm . Hugin tutorials are available at hugin.sourceforge.net/ .
John
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 12:46 GMT
updated: 7 Mar 2008 at 12:57 GMT
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I've used old Coolpix cameras - the 995 and 5000 - with the FC-E8. And more recently the current Coolpix P5100 with the FC-E8.
The FC-E8 is generally considered 'better' than the FC-E9 - the latter is much larger and heavier and more cumbersome.
All work fine with 3 or better still (I think) 4 shots around. 2 shots is tricky without a special panohead and software.
(I also have a D40 DSLR and the Nikkor 10.5mm FE but that's another story).
I can recommend Autopano Pro for stitching and rendering.
You can download a trial version of APP here:
www.autopano.net/buy-autopano/download.html
You can find various sample image sets from FE lenses at the Agno's web site under 'samples':
www.agnos.com/samples.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=0000000008030713405414648269&v_menu_lista=MSXDX-MENSX-MSD03-M0302
360Precision web site also has some nice sets of sample FE images shot with D200 and the 10.5mm FE (look at bottom of home page):
www.360precision.com/360/360.cfm
You will benefit (a lot!)from using some sort of pano head - use it with a monopod or tripod - I can recommend the low cost, but beautifully made, Bophoto travel bracket for use with FC-E8/9:
www.bophoto.com/bracket/
The Agno's Mrotator series of heads also offers models for use with FC-E8/9 - very good but more expensive:
www.agnos.com/prodotti.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=0000000007122820074683475699&v_categ_lista=P0000-P0005
I found this article written (in Italian) by Luca Vascon for the Nikon Italy web site very informative and quite inspiring:
www.nital.it/experience/immersiva-p5000.php
Andrew
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Matt Rogers
[360 Precision]
Posts: 149
Location: Oxford UK, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 13:06 GMT
updated: 7 Mar 2008 at 13:12 GMT
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mediavets said: 360Precision web site also has some nice sets of sample FE images shot with D200 and the 10.5mm FE (look at bottom of home page):
www.360precision.com/360/360.cfm
We've also just started to upload the results of our fisheye shoot-out:
www.360precision.com/360/rd/fisheye
Well have almost 100 sets of images for download from the following lenses:
1. Sigma 4.5mm
2. Sunex 5.6mm
3. Nikkor 8mm
4. Sigma 8mm f3.5
5. Sigma 10mm
6. Nikkor 10.5mm
7. Nikkor 10.5mm - shaved
8. Nikkor 16mm
9. Tokina 10-17mm
All lenses were tested on the D3, D300 and FujiS5Pro
Matt
360Precision
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 13:12 GMT
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If cost is not an issue then you can't really go wrong with a Canon 400D (aka XTi in US I believe) DSLR and the Sigma 8mm 3.5 FE with an Agno's RingT8S head which would allow a min. of either 3 (at 60-degrees roll) or 4 (portrait) shots around for 360:
www.agnos.com/prodotti.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=0000000008030714081134292601&v_categ_lista=P0000-P0004
Andrew
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Matt Rogers
[360 Precision]
Posts: 149
Location: Oxford UK, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 13:15 GMT
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mediavets said: If cost is not an issue then you can't really go wrong with a Canon 400D (aka XTi in US I believe) DSLR and the Sigma 8mm 3.5 FE with an Agno's RingT8S head which would allow a min. of either 3 (at 60-degrees roll) or 4 (portrait) shots around for 360:
www.agnos.com/prodotti.htm?v_lingua=ENG&v_iss_web=0000000008030714081134292601&v_categ_lista=P0000-P0004
Andrew
If you're thinking about a lens clamp type head you'd be better of waiting a few weeks as we have a new product being launched. As per our other products the quality and usability will beat all comers. The price will also be competitive.
Matt
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Ken Warner
Posts: 298
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 16:22 GMT
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I use a pipe clamp I got in the hardware store. Fits the extension tube on my Fuji e550 perfectly. There's a bolt hole in the bottom that I use to attach it to mono/tripod.
$1.98...
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 17:31 GMT
updated: 7 Mar 2008 at 17:31 GMT
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Here's an example of what you could do with the FC-E8 on a compact digital camera.
This was spherical but I cropped it, I could have done it in 4 shots but chose to take more - 8 in all, all shot in less than 60 seconds - as it lets the Autopano Pro stitcher/renderer balance colour/exposure better with more shots when shooting full auto mode I find. P5100 can do 12MP but I shot at 5MP:
www.autopano.net/forum/t3415-isleham-fen-cambridg...
Andrew
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John Houghton
Posts: 2013
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 18:23 GMT
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Andrew, That panorama has a rather marked loss of quality in the middle section. Is that due to lens flare or exposure differences or something else?
John
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 21:28 GMT
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John Houghton said: Andrew, That panorama has a rather marked loss of quality in the middle section. Is that due to lens flare or exposure differences or something else?
John
John, Could be some combination of poor handling of the monopod, too much overlap bwtween images, fact that FC-E8 not designed to work with P5100, lens flare, variation between exposures due to auto mode, colour/exposure blending and/or Spline36/Smartblend rendering in Autopano Pro?
I've done a new version using fewer of the images from original set and posted it as full spherical in the Panoguide galery:
www.panoguide.com/gallery/691/
Do you think this version is better?
I put together this relatively low cost very portable setup specifically to shoot 'snapshot panos' where image quality was not to be the 'be all and end all' and I'm still learning with it, and particularly when I can use auto modes on the camera and still get acceptable (to me) results.
I'm not unhappy with this one.
Andrew
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John Houghton
Posts: 2013
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 21:57 GMT
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Andrew, Yes, That's a lot better. It looks like it needs levelling, though, if that's typical flat fenland.
John
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Dane Hidden
Posts: 6
Location: palm beach, United States
Registered: 7 Mar 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 23:03 GMT
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Thank you all for your advice;;
This is the third timeI'm writing this because my connection timed out twice already 
John you were spot on.
I just tryed PTGui and it did a bang up job on a 3shot pano. It took me a few hours to figure out how to make it generate control points with circular FE's but once I got that it was a piece of pie.
Andrew said: (I also have a D40 DSLR and the Nikkor 10.5mm FE but that's another story).
please elaborate. I was considering this exact setup although the cost was a bit steep I would do it just for the fact that I'd then have a DSLR. can this take a 3-4shot 360 ? I would definatly go for the p5100 if not because it is only like $299 but because it seems to have some pretty cool capabilites and it will be less cumbersome then a DSLR plus then I would only need to carry the body and the FE lens and a tripod+rotator.
I have come to the conclusion through all of my reading that I would be best off doing a 3-4shot because it seems to be easier to stitch that way.
I currently use a cheapo 5.1MP and use the stand+spin+shoot method and it takes me like 9shots to make a 360x60+- pano.
I go hiking in the nature preserves here in S.Florida and would love to capture a bunch of panos and geotag them. I just don't want it to become more work then fun. I mean when I go for hike I really don't like being distracted by my current method.
I'm also working on making a viewer in swish which is another challenge but it is coming along pretty nicely.
anyone got some more advice or other thoughts? on my hardware choices?
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 7 Mar 2008 at 23:13 GMT
updated: 7 Mar 2008 at 23:17 GMT
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John Houghton said: Andrew, Yes, That's a lot better. It looks like it needs levelling, though, if that's typical flat fenland.
John
Could be - but the horizon may not be entirely horizontal as part of it will be higher ground that carries the main road - on a rising plane - between Soham and Ely - a spur of land that was always above the water even before the fens were drained. As was the Isle of Ely of course.
Isleham is one of a 'chain' of ancient fen-edge villages - we have an old Priory church building that dates back to 1190 and local Roman and Anglo-Saxon finds - that was always just beyond and above the southern limit of the fens at the edge of a chalk ridge which I believe extends continously from the Chilterns to Norfolk on which ran/runs the Icknield Way (www.icknieldwaypath.co.uk/) which claims to be 'the oldest road in Britain'.
Andrew
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mediavets
Posts: 139
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 0:44 GMT
updated: 8 Mar 2008 at 1:03 GMT
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Dane Hidden said: Andrew said: (I also have a D40 DSLR and the Nikkor 10.5mm FE but that's another story).
please elaborate. I was considering this exact setup although the cost was a bit steep I would do it just for the fact that I'd then have a DSLR. can this take a 3-4shot 360 ? I would definatly go for the p5100 if not because it is only like $299 but because it seems to have some pretty cool capabilites and it will be less cumbersome then a DSLR plus then I would only need to carry the body and the FE lens and a tripod+rotator.
I have come to the conclusion through all of my reading that I would be best off doing a 3-4shot because it seems to be easier to stitch that way.
I currently use a cheapo 5.1MP and use the stand+spin+shoot method and it takes me like 9shots to make a 360x60+- pano.
I go hiking in the nature preserves here in S.Florida and would love to capture a bunch of panos and geotag them. I just don't want it to become more work then fun. I mean when I go for hike I really don't like being distracted by my current method.
I'm also working on making a viewer in swish which is another challenge but it is coming along pretty nicely.
anyone got some more advice or other thoughts? on my hardware choices?
The real pano experts will emphasise that ideally one does not choose a load of gear then go see what it can do - but instead try and determine what sort of images you wish to produce and work backwards towards what sort of gear will enable you to do that. They will typically have multiple gear options - ie. different cameras, lenses and pano heads and supports and use different setups for different purposes.
But...few of use can afford to follow suit - at least initially.
I started out knowing that I wanted to be able to produce spherical pano images of architectural interiors - old churches typically - that could be displayed on the Web full-screen with good quality. This turns out to be a fairly challenging task as panos go, mostly because lighting conditions are often particularly difficult in church interiors.
I tried using my old Coolpix cameras with the FC-E8 FE and an old Kaidan Kiwi pano head - but could not get the result I wanted - just beyond what such a setup could do really I think.
So sought advice from an expert. He advised that 'it all depends etc etc' ( as mentioned above) but summarised by saying that if he had to settle for one camera and one lens as an alround capable pano setup he'd suggest the Canon 400D and the Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE lens and either the Agno's RingT8S or T-series full pano bracket with the Mrotator M base rotator.
So what did I do?....well, not entirely spurning the good advice, I chose the Nikon D40 and the Nikkor 10.5mm FE lens.
Why? Well I figured that combo would cost significantly less (so I could more of the 'budget' towards a pano head which could cope with any camera I might ever own for panography - I got the Nodal Ninja 5L) and the 6MP D40 with the 10.5mm FE would match the resolution of a 10MP Canon 400D with the Sigma 8mm, albeit requiring me to take more shots for 360x180. And for other types of photography I felt I'd prefer the Nikon D40 to the Canon 400D.
Did I chose wisely? Hmmmm.....not sure. The D40 + Nikkor 10.5mm FE + Nodal Ninja 5L setup works great. I use Autopano Pro as a stitcher.
But...the Nikon D40, D40X and D60 are NOT ideal general purpose alround pano cameras - and certainly not for shooting panos of old church interiors - because:
1. They do have have an automatic exposure bracketing (AEB) function - very useful for interior panos in difficult lighting conditions where one ideally needs to bracket exposures and use exposure blending/HDR.
2. One cannot attach a wired remote - useful for certain types of pano shooting.
3. Can be 'noisier' than the Canons if using long exposures.
You certainly cannot do spherical panos in 3-4 shots with the D40 + Nikkor 10.5mm FE. Typically people shoot a min. of 8 shots with this setup and you will need a full pano head that can both tilt and rotate.
With the D40/D40X/D60+Sigma 8mm f3.5mm you can do sphericals in 3-4 shots. You will need to shoot at 60 degrees roll for 3-shots, using a head like the Agno's RingT8S. Or 4 normal portrait shots. You may find stitching/rendering of the zenith less than perfect but if it's sky outdoors that tends not to be an issue. And can be resolved with more shots using a full pano head (ie. can tilt and rotate, or by a small upward tilt with the RingT8S leaving a small 'hole' at the nadir.
As mentioned before you will find sample 3-shot pano image sets - of Venice - shot with Sigma 8mm on MrotatorC and RingT8S type heads on Agno's web site. Download and stitch them and decide if that result would meet your needs.
.......
Then I was inspired by the idea of more casual 'snapshot' style panography as described by Luca Vascon in the article mentioned earlier - www.nital.it/experience/immersiva-p5000.php -so I also got the P5100 + FC-8 + Bophoto bracket system together for that. I had the FC-E8 already of course.
........
If your goal is outdoors 'snapshot' style spherical panography using a compact and lightweight system while hiking(ie.'fun' rather than 'work') then I reckon the P5100 + FC-E8 + Bophoto bracket or Agno's P5000/5100 adapter + photo walking pole or monopod could be hard to beat. And I would recommend Autopano Pro too.
...
Hope this helps a bit.
I bought most of my gear - D40, Nikkor 10.5mm FE, FC-E8, and P5100 used (but not much) on eBay which saved quite a bit of cash. Pano heads are rarely available used. But the Bophoto bracket is inexpensive and Nodal Ninja 3 and 5 heads are very competitively priced and represent excellent value.
Andrew
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Smooth
Posts: 1438
Location: Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Spherical Panorama Fisheye Stitcher, SP-ST, v4.71 ???
Posted: 8 Mar 2008 at 2:31 GMT
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mediavets said: 1. They do have have an automatic exposure bracketing (AEB) function - very useful for interior panos in difficult lighting conditions where one ideally needs to bracket exposures and use exposure blending/HDR.
Should read:
1. They do NOT have have an automatic exposure bracketing (AEB) function - very useful for ..............
Regards, Smooth 
www.smooth360.info
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