Tom Vogel
Posts: 27
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 5 Mar 2007
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Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 14:54 GMT
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Hi All,
I recently purchased the NN3 from Rosauro - by the way... he is a true professional with exceptional service. Thanks Rosauro!
I use a Canon 400 Xti with a Peleng 8mm. The NN3 site suggests that the lens pupil can be found with the lower rail at 40.5mm and the upper rail at 80mm. I shot a series of panos with that setting and they all displayed serious Parallax errors. I then tried positioned the lower rail by pointing the camera down and shooting the nodal point with the rig centered in the lens and then adjusted the upper rail by eye. The lower rail readings were only a few mils away from 40.5 (just on 45mm) and the upper rail on 85mm. I get better results - but still unacceptable to my standards.
Does anyone shoot with a Canon 400 Xti / Peleng / NN3 combo?
If so - have you found the ideal settings. I would love to know through this forum rather than spend the next couple of weeks 'reinventing the wheel'.
Also - could the glitched stitching be the result of my PTGui settings?
Here's an example of a tour shot with my NN3 set at its current setting:
www.ispace-tours.com/35-haddon-ave_dbs/int2_java_...
Take a look at the tile floor. I fixed the window along the rift line in photoshop - but it also was glitched.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Regards,
Tom
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racenviper
Posts: 60
Location: Swartz Creek Michigan, United States
Registered: 27 Mar 2007
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 15:11 GMT
updated: 14 Feb 2008 at 15:12 GMT
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Did you check the "Camera Settings" area at Nodal Ninja?
nodalninja.com/nodal_ninja_3_camera_settings.html
maybe here:
www.panotools.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Entr...
One thing to remember your settings will differ from someone else with the same equipment. You will have to spend 1 or two hours fine tuning. Once you have centered the lens then just make a series of shot at 2mm spacing. You only need to take a left and right shot and then compare the paralax. My lens for my equipment (Pentax) needed to be at 90mm I start at 84mm and made my series every 2mm till I reached 96mm downloaded my files. When I found where I needed to be. Then I did a closer spacing to tweak it into the sweet spot.
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gus
Posts: 385
Location: United Kingdom
Registered: 19 Jun 2007
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 15:23 GMT
updated: 14 Feb 2008 at 15:24 GMT
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I agree, find the nodal point yourself. It doesnt take "weeks", it takes 1-2 hours, depending on good your first guess is! Rosauro has a great tutorial over here:
www.rosaurophotography.com/html/technical7.html
Besides, there's immense satisfaction to be had in finding the sweet spot yourself, rather than borrowing someone else's settings in the hope they will work. The other advantage is that if you've found the settings yourself, then you can be 100% sure any stitching errors appearing in your panos are not due to parralax, but something else in your workflow.
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Tim Eastman
Posts: 35
Location:
Registered: 13 Nov 2006
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 15:42 GMT
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Tom:
The settings listed are probably pretty accurate, but fine tuning with an understanding of the process will be worth the effort and contribute greatly to your understanding. I think John Houghton covers this well:
www.johnhpanos.com/epcalib.htm
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John Houghton
Posts: 2308
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 16:49 GMT
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gus said: I agree, find the nodal point yourself. It doesnt take "weeks", it takes 1-2 hours,
I set up my head accurately for two lenses (one being a zoom lens, set at 4 different zoom settings) and the whole process took an hour. I used my method of directly viewing the entrance pupil described in the tutorial link that Tim gave above. You can see the entrance pupil, therefore it is simple to check that its position is the same when the head is rotated by 60 or 90 degrees (or whatever) just by looking at it. This is the high tech setup I used:
The cardboard sighting device takes about 2 minutes to make.
John
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bigwade
Posts: 270
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 16:57 GMT
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New camera and lens John ?  )
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John Houghton
Posts: 2308
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 17:02 GMT
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Newish camera, old lens.
I meant to add that stitching errors aren't necessarily due to parallax errors. If there are still stitching errors after setting the head up correctly, then it may be that you need to be a bit smarter with the stitching.
John
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 418
Location: Phoenix in the Arizona Desert, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 17:07 GMT
updated: 14 Feb 2008 at 17:09 GMT
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Hi Tom,
I believe you may have purchased the kit from Rosauro that included the new Camera Mounting Plate (part# N-CP1).
The settings on the website are for NN3 setups using the square rubber washer. Because the CP is "thicker" by 10mm's it skews the settings accordingly. We did make note of this on the settings page but understand it to be easily overlooked. Folks using the CP should try “adding” 10mm the lower rail "A" settings.
Amended settings using the CP on NN3 should be:
A = 50.5mm / B = 80mm
Upper rail settings will not change with use of CP. Try to keep within +/- 2mm's of these settings for best results. Anything more and you will start seeing greater parallax making stitching more challenging.
It is also important to note the use of quick release plates will also skew these settings and adjustments will need to be made accordingly.
Let us know if this fixes things for you.
Cheers
Bill
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Tom Vogel
Posts: 27
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 5 Mar 2007
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 17:26 GMT
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Hi all,
Ok Ok - I get it ... I simply have to roll up my sleeves and tackle this bull like a man 
Thanks to you all for the challenge and the great advice. Bill - your point about the CP will help narrow things down considerably - thanks. By the way - you have a good man at the wheel in Toronto. Rosauro was very swift in all his help while I was making my purchase. The NN3 is a wonderfully crafted piece of work and I'm already much more confident to shoot 4 + Zenith thanks to the solid detents approach.
Just a quick question - there are 2 white washers that I believe must be used under the Knurl Knob. I haven't used them yet because I was unsure if they were only for back-up of other washers in the kit. If so - do I use both to keep the Knurl from coming loose over time?
The level bubble is quite accurate - but do I need to position it in each frame to be dead-center? It does stray a little to one end of the circle - always at the 270-degree mark with the 4 detent ring. Is that due to the missing white washers?
John - your high-tech set up made me laugh ... but with great respect!
Again thanks - and I'll be back with results the moment I get a chance to do so.
Tom
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 418
Location: Phoenix in the Arizona Desert, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 17:52 GMT
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Hey Tom,
Yes Rosauro takes personal pride is all he does and we are privileged to have him on our team. We appreciate you sharing your experiences.
With respect to the washers under the rotator knob each NN is hand built and one NN might favor one washer while another might favor two. Start with one - if you can achieve the desired tension/friction then all is well. If not try two.
My older NN3 uses two while many newer NN3's uses one.
On the bubble level:
The bubble level is extremely sensitive - maybe to much so. Sometimes it may be difficult to obtain a true and exact level so some drift is likely. As long as the drift isn't excessive you should be able to find a happy medium. Some people like using multiple levels but I find this too challenging, like trying to stack marbles - it becomes very difficult. I do fine with the NN3 level on its own. There are some that still enjoy using multiple levels so this is a personal choice.
If you are noting excessive drift outside the inner circle you might not have the lower rotator correctly tightened. See nodalninja.com/faq_s.html number 10.
Also make sure your tripod is secure and doesn't have any wobble. A slightly loose tripod neck (like the hand crank models) commonly found with lesser expensive models, will create an uneven rotation. Also double check the surface you have your tripod on. We learned some surfaces, like carpet or those with loss sub-flooring, may actually cause level drift as you step around the tripod.
Let us know if this fixes things for you.
Cheers
Bill
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 418
Location: Phoenix in the Arizona Desert, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 18:35 GMT
updated: 14 Feb 2008 at 18:36 GMT
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hmm - double post here - sorry was only making an edit to above post - James you can delete one.
Hey Tom,
Yes Rosauro takes personal pride in all he does and we are privileged to have him on our team. We appreciate you sharing your experiences.
With respect to the washers under the rotator knob each NN is hand built and one NN might favor one washer while another might favor two. Start with one - if you can achieve the desired tension/friction then all is well. If not try two.
My older NN3 uses two while many newer NN3's uses one.
On the bubble level:
The bubble level is extremely sensitive - maybe to much so. Sometimes it may be difficult to obtain a true and exact level so some drift is likely. As long as the drift isn't excessive you should be able to find a happy medium. Some people like using multiple levels but I find this too challenging, like trying to stack marbles - it becomes very difficult. I do fine with the NN3 level on its own. There are some that still enjoy using multiple levels so this is a personal choice.
If you are noting excessive drift outside the inner circle you might not have the lower rotator correctly tightened. See nodalninja.com/faq_s.html number 10.
Also make sure your tripod is secure and doesn't have any wobble. A slightly loose tripod neck (like the hand crank models) commonly found with lesser expensive models, will create an uneven rotation. Also double check the surface you have your tripod on. We learned some surfaces, like carpet or those with loss sub-flooring, may actually cause level drift as you step around the tripod.
Let us know if this fixes things for you.
Cheers
Bill
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bigwade
Posts: 270
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 19:53 GMT
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Bill Bailey said: . Folks using the CP should try “adding” 10mm the lower rail "A" settings.
In practice it's less than 10mm at least at my NN3....
adding 6,5 mm (from the NN database) results in a good nadir without the saw.
Just my idea, maybe John can tell more, he worked also with and without the camera mount.
Have Fun!
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John Houghton
Posts: 2308
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 20:28 GMT
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I don't have one of the new camera mounting plates for my NN3, but I assume it is the same as was supplied on the NN5. In which case, it should add 10mm to the lower rail settings, as Bill suggested. That's certainly the thickness I measured.
John
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 418
Location: Phoenix in the Arizona Desert, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 20:31 GMT
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I was beginning to scratch my head - thanks for the confirmation John. The CP's are the same.
Cheers
Bill
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Rosauro
Posts: 238
Location: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 15 Dec 2006
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Re: Nodal Ninja 3 - finding the perfect parallax
Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 20:45 GMT
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Tom
Thank you for the kind words.
I was beginning to think my caliper's battery was dying... 
Rosauro
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