Hans Nyberg
Posts: 856
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Macs The real stats.
Posted: 31 Jan 2008 at 18:33 GMT
updated: 31 Jan 2008 at 18:38 GMT
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This is not a Mac Windows discussion but just some facts which I believe is important for anyone who publishes websites.
And for them who developes software for photographers.
panoramas.dk all visitors last 15 months 4,884.108 Mac 10.6% linux 1.56%
Here are the stats for Mac visitors from different sources.
Macs in % + the No of all visitors from that site
1. Professional photographers:
IVRPA.com 52% 185
www.Galbraith.com 58% 1406
360precision.com 31% 2520
Danish photojournalists site pressefotografforbundet.dk 49% 859
2. Photo Communities:
Panoguide.com 30% 2168
flashpanoramas.com 28% 2197
WWP 20,8 % 1973
lists-apple.com 43% 1162
panorama-community.net 40% 1269
DPreview Forum 5.4% 888
3. Google.com general searches 448,709 for last 4 months Mac 9,1%
4. Different deferrers:
Facebook.com 15.9% 346
wikipedia.org 9,29% 13,665
the9.yahoo.com 6.58% 9787
radiofrance.fr 15.3% 1294 feature in a cultural program
foxnews.com 4.8% 54.758 MtEverest linked as a webcam
andrewsullivan.com 25% 5.547 Very wellknown political journalist 1 day link
delicio.com 15.9% 2098
ehrensenf.de 14.1% 1355
There are of course also differences among countries,
Have not gone through all that yet as Analytics did not give me results for the whole period for some countries.
For the last 3 months I have 37.000 visitors from Spain 4.9% Macs and surprise 5.5 % Linus. Looks like I have to ad some Flash for them.
The same for France based on 175.000 visitors from 15 months is 17,24% Mac and 2.25% Linus
That Macs are at least 50% among professional photographers is what I had expected.
However the last visitors from different sources are also interesting as it shows you that you have to expect much higher no of Macs than average among some type of visitors.
I may get some very angry feedback from saying this but it is obvious that Macs are used more among people with higher education.
But of course we already know that. Mr Nielsen published those stats several years ago.
Hans
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fiero
Posts: 258
Location: La Rioja, Spain
Registered: 6 Jul 2005
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 31 Jan 2008 at 18:56 GMT
updated: 31 Jan 2008 at 18:57 GMT
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Very complete stats, thank you Hans.
I think, the Macs penetration has to see also with purchasing-power, because Macs are more expensive that a PC with the same features (of course with an illegal copy of Windows, this is common on PC world).
Spain is the poor brother of France: tinylink.com/?XY3S59lFbf
regards
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Smooth
Posts: 1468
Location: Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 4:31 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2008 at 4:33 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: I may get some very angry feedback from saying this but it is obvious that Macs are used more among people with higher education.
But of course we already know that. Mr Nielsen published those stats several years ago.
Hans
OK, explain that statement to this undereducated PC user Hans. Why use a Mac over a PC without going into drivel about viruses and spyware. Is it because of the vast array of software or the incompatibilities of OSX releases that are more suited to the highly educated? Or, the fact it's always the Mac users complaining that I can't see the panorama?
Too make money in this world you need to cater to the masses and this is PC users. It's so very funny that the "self promoted" highly educated are the first to welcome the Intel chip to the Mac so now they have at least half a chance at some diversity in software.
Be buggered if I'm going to sit back and be told that PC are for the undereducated without raising the question as to why this is?
So Hans, back it up with something a whole lot better than the visitor statistics supplied so far. Macs are the only computers taught in Australian schools so that accounts for some adult users who have never been taught how to deal with "real life" and yet still in adult Australian population Mac users account for again a tiny amount of users in comparison.
I'll tell you what, when Mac Computers have more than 50% of the total market and can do something more than a PC I'll buy one. Looks like my money safe for some decades yet.
Are you still using a Sony Betacord? Technically better you know!
Regards, Smooth 
www.smooth360.info
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TriggerHappY
Posts: 608
Location: vancouver, Canada
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 5:23 GMT
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Hiya Hans, some neet numbers. Are you able to split the stats into "working" vs "leisure" users by time of request? Would be nice to see the stats from people at work vs people from home.
Cheers
Dylan
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Ken Warner
Posts: 367
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 7:44 GMT
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Hans Nyberg said: This is not a Mac Windows discussion
As if you could even broach this subject without passions being enflamed on both sides. It's almost religious in intensity....
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michael medina
Posts: 284
Location: portland, oregon, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2008
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 9:47 GMT
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i think he misspoke when he said 'higher education'
what he meant was 'more intelligent'   
i'm just kidding btw
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 856
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 10:11 GMT
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Smooth said: Hans Nyberg said:
So Hans, back it up with something a whole lot better than the visitor statistics supplied so far. Macs are the only computers taught in Australian schools so that accounts for some adult users who have never been taught how to deal with "real life" and yet still in adult Australian population Mac users account for again a tiny amount of users in comparison.
Regards, Smooth
www.smooth360.info
As I said this is no news,
Already in 2002 Nielsen Rating published this investigation.
www.news.com/2100-1040-943519.html
"Nielsen/NetRatings said that 70.2 percent of Mac users online have a college degree, compared with 54.2 percent of all Web surfers. That, combined with their longer surfing histories and their greater willingness to buy products via the Web, makes Mac consumers a prime catch for marketers, Kelly said."
Hans
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Smooth
Posts: 1468
Location: Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1692
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 13:37 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2008 at 14:04 GMT
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Hans, I considered your 9% Mac users estimation from last year an optimistic but understable estimation from a Mac user.
I happen to have some experience in statistics and I can tell to any one who want to guide after visitors statistic and stuff that must chose the widest area available
for example, statistics from google are a better reference but is also related to your content.
When is about your site or the site you influence and/or edit the follow fenomenon is happen:
Suppose that you publish one site in English and X language, if you take care that the visitors using X language to receive the best experiance when acces your site that will have the effect of increasing of the X visitors, it's a natural fact not becouse you attract with something special but becouse they have faultless experience in your site and eventually choose your site over others.
In short any site which take extra care about Mac user will experience an increase of visitor using Mac, any software publisher who want to port its software on Macs platform will have also an increasing of the popularity among Mac users, that isn't by any means that the number of Mac users increasing is more like a tunning from both publisher on Mac and existing Mac users on the publisher. the benefit is only for the Mac users on the expense of neglecting in some way by the publisher(even if that mean lack of progress) of the majority.
Honestly if I'll experience an increase from 25% to 30% of Macs I'll take a look on what cause the majority to decrease from 75% to 70%
I simply found ridiculos the statistics about education and OS used but I must confess that I didn't fill up any form about my education when I purchased or used my PC.
Dorin
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Tim Eastman
Posts: 68
Location:
Registered: 15 Nov 2006
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 13:58 GMT
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I'm glad that most CAD programs, including the one I use, are PC based! It keeps me out of these silly arguments. I'm perfectly happy to pay less, and my PC experience has been fantastic, nowhere near the purgatory my Macolyte friends warned me about!
Signed,
a college educated PC user
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Smooth
Posts: 1468
Location: Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 16:44 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2008 at 16:46 GMT
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I don't mind offering a version that will work on both Mac and PC computers. But I'm not going out of my way to pander to the minority just because they feel or want to feel "special".
Don't get me wrong, we need Apple Mac to keep the up competition and to help drive progress forward and I'm not down on those who choose use or own them. I do draw the line at being told that PC Users are somehow less of a person or have less intelligence because a Mac user tell them so! Fair Dinkum....
Nielsen statistics though are just plan silly. Just like the Television ratings. 100 Stat Boxes in a city of 4 million doesn't tell a true story of what's being watched (if it does, the worlds a way scarier place than I'd hoped). Comparing casual Internet surfers with computer workers (professionals if you like) is crazy. It's like comparing super fine diamonds traded for investment vs the diamonds worn by the average lady in the street and saying there all the same thing.
Complaining that this or that doesn't work on the Apple Mac is the fault of the "Mac" not the PC or the PC user. It's up the people playing Mac to find a way to catch up with the majority, you know - where most of the real world hangs out. Then and only then will the "highly educated" get their way! Luckily for these users Steve Jobs seen the writing on the wall and made the transition to Intel chips to give the Apple Mac a fighting chance.
Regards, Smooth
www.smooth360.com
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Hans Nyberg
Posts: 856
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 17:45 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2008 at 17:49 GMT
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Dorin
I am afraid you are very wrong in most of what you say.
First of all the Google searches at panoramas.dk are in no way Mac related.
If they was I would not have the visitors I have.
Here are the first 500 keywords. www.panoramas.dk/statistics/keywords.pdf
For 449,442 visitors.
Of them only 3 searches are Mac related.
They represent around 6000 visits about 1.5%
QTVR 30% Mac Quicktime VR 35% Mac and Apple Store New York who seaches for that. Actually only 24% are from Macs.
Also see the Mac visitors from Wikipedia in my first post. 9%
I have no Mac links from Wikipedia, They come from pages like Everest and similar tourist related links.
Regarding languages,
This is the language settings, Stats
Remember that you may not be English because you use English as System language. I have never used Danish or Swedish as System. On Mac changing language is a simple restart with OSX.
Who uses English if you come from Romania.?
Higher education? Of Course.
Check the numbers below. I have checked both Country stats and language stats and as you can see there is a large difference in all countries except France and Spain.
France has always been a Mac country. They have the largest Mac Expo in the world.
Regarding australia it is not true that they all use Macs in school.
The truth is 30% And my stats for Australia is 10.84%
Who do you believe use English instead of US-english in US?
First No is pageviews/visitor second is spent time as average.
That is average for all visits also them who just bounce after 5 seconds. or after viewing the fullscreen they was linked to.
en-us 2.34 1:54 Mac 8,62 Only 60% with this setting are from US
en 3.21 4.04 Mac 85,78 50% visitors from US
en-gb 2.37 2.06 Mac 2.41
de 2.89 1.58 Mac 3,62
Germany 3,3 2.18 Mac 8,77
fr 3.79 3.06 Mac 12.96
France 4,02 3.10 Mac 13,18
nl 2.65 1,34 Mac 1.75
Nederland 2,65 1,36 Mac 3,24
es 3.20 2.58 Mac 5.44
Spain 2,97 2.00 Mac 5,10
es-es 3.07 3.33 Mac 6.09
ja 2.31 1.37 Mac 0.57
japan 2,37 1,48 Mac 16,85
pt-br 2.96 3.28 Mac 0.66
it 2,97 2.27 Mac 4.8
ro language 2,76 2,41 Mac 0,51
romania 2.77 3,76 Mac 1,37
pl 3.14 4,38 Mac 0.43
poland 3,37 4,14 Mac 1,81
ru 2.88 4.49 Mac 0.48
And here are the screen resolution stats for the last month.
We are finally almost got rid of the 800x600
Screen resolutions
800x600 is gone except for countries like india which still has 16%
800x600 3.7%
1024x768 35%
1280x1024 18%
the rest around 40% are different widescreen resolutions
Hans
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Ken Warner
Posts: 367
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 17:55 GMT
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Mac's are good stuff. And Microsoft was smart enough to copy most of the features of Apple's UI and claim "innovation".
But Mac's are way more expensive than PC's for various reasons. And cheaper trumps better. That's why I'm typing this on a PC and not a Mac.
Question: Is it smarter or dumber to pay for "good enough for what I need.." or pay for what you are told is "the best because smart people use it"?
And behind all the religious fervor, there's the viral marketing guys who love to promulgate subliminal rumors like -- "Mac users are smarter..." etc. I've known some really dumb Mac users.
And pollsters like Nielsen have all the integrity of a TV news reader. They do what they do for money. You want a good rating? Pay up...
Trust no one.
Oh, by the way, Java works on both...
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Shantic
Posts: 274
Location: Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco, Mexico, Mexico
Registered: 12 Apr 2005
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 18:16 GMT
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90% of the people I know tha use macs are dumb, very dumb in fact, and what is that about only smart people using Macs, even the viral marketing its about how EASY and simple everything is, vs how complicated it is on a PC, so you MUST be smarter to handle a very complicated machine like a PC with windows no? I guess those guys have never had any problems with mac (even the smartest guy I know that uses a mac has a very easy poblem to fix on PC that he cannot fix on a mac... a program re-instalation, not even the mac hotline has been able to resolve this, go figure, the smartest people...).
On my web site mac users are a VERY minority, like smooth said, I don't mind giving them the option to view my site, but I am not jumping over hurdles just to get them to view what 98% of my visitors can without a problem, but I am guessing this is a per-site idea.
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photo41
Posts: 177
Location: Stamora Romana - Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Dec 2007
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Re: Macs The real stats.
Posted: 1 Feb 2008 at 18:24 GMT
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Dear friends,
Inflamming discution, isn't it? Being afraid I somehow added gas to this fire with my opinion that a player should be full page and platform-free, I hope peace and reason will win again - as always - and we all will be enriched subsequent to this exchange of ideas, regardless of the harder words which will be soon forgotten.
I suppose many of us see panoramas less than a hobby and more like a very competitive and serious commercial activity. So I think it is normal to see a customer of mine extremely interested by the fact that some x.x % of HIS site will have to download something in order to see a well payed pano on a different platform or he'll have to put three versions of the same pano and even so not being too sure his visitor will be able to see it at all. It is difficult enough, given the file dimension and other technical requirements, to do and promote panos.
But of course this would be my opinion only, no offence intended, and I almost certainly am wrong.
I think the best, the most creative and the skillest is DevalVR, but the unfair competition of flash - already running on all computers ever visited youtube.com for instance - is a hard to reach competition for Fiero.
On the other hand, if I think a little to the vast majority of Linux users who are also somehow engaged into its development makes me wonder on the average Linux user studies and IQ.
Please escuse me for wasting your time with my post, I work on panoramas with Windows and am not a developper or other contributor in the Linux world
Regards,Valentin
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