kla
Posts: 14
Location:
Registered: 29 Jul 2004
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should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 1:34 GMT
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My goal is to produce VR tours for realestate companies and FSBO. I assume that web will be 98% of where the pics will land.
I'm new to panoramic and VR stuff, so bear with me....from what I read the following apear to be true (for the most part).
stiched photos = number of pics depends on room, best quality, slowest time to put together
one shot solutions = 1 picture,lower quality than stiched but MUCH faster, have aditional hardware to lug around, expensive (unless you build your own)
fisheye = 2 pictures, qualtiy and speed to put project togeter fall between stiched and 1 shot, Only extra item you need is the lens, only certain pano software will "read" fisheye pics
If the above is true then fish-eye is the solution that intrest me.
Anyone know if I can get a fisheye lens for a Canon A70 (I find mixed answers elsewhere on the web). If so is it 180 degrees.
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ddd
Posts: 783
Location: vancouver, Canada
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 4:36 GMT
updated: 9 Sep 2004 at 17:27 GMT
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deleted
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Maestro Maestro
Posts: 12
Location:
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 4:39 GMT
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Yes and no, iPIX has a patent that says that you can't, unless you use there software. Only one other company is licensed to stich fisheye images and that is www.pictosphere.com. HOwever the resolution between a one shot lens vs the spherical is not that much. The only difference is the looking up and down.
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James Rigg
[Panoguide]
Posts: 322
Location: London, United Kingdom
Registered: 1 Jun 2003
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 10:32 GMT
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Just to be clear on this, the iPIX and Oxaal patents are not registered in all jurisdictions. I don't know off-hand exactly which jurisdictions they are held in other than the US. One of the key iPIX patents was thrown out by the European Patent organisation for "lacking an inventive step". I do not know if iPIX have successfully appealed since.
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kla
Posts: 14
Location:
Registered: 29 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 13:27 GMT
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so pictosphere nad Ipix are the only legal way to go in the US for fisheye?
One about one shot, any legal issues on that?
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simply steve
Posts: 16
Location: Michigan,
Registered: 16 Aug 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 18:23 GMT
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K -
I'm no lawyer, but from what I gather using two fisheye images with non-Ipix software (and now, pictosphere) is an..uhh.."grey area." Easypano can do it, and I know they are not in trouble. I'm not sure how this applies to 3 fisheyes, but if you're going the fisheye route you probably want to use 3 anyway (more overlap = better quality stitching).
As to your initial questions, I would say that if you just do a single row rectilinear (standard) set of pictures, that would be the quickest overall process (shoot + process time). The quality is sometimes a matter of opinion. Rectilinear panos don't 'curve' like one from a fisheye and turn out much more crisp and glossy. Fisheyes and optics (like one-shot) are much softer, but still present the immersive feel. We have done some shooting for real estate and FSBOs and find that the processing time taken to make quality panos with fisheyes is not worth the compensation. Completely a matter of opinion, though.
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kla
Posts: 14
Location:
Registered: 29 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 18:46 GMT
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If I use single photos stiched together then I would need to take 2 pictures to get the top and bottom of a wall right?
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rickdrew
Posts: 215
Location: Oak Lawn, United States
Registered: 18 Aug 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 18:54 GMT
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I've done all three - I have a one shot, fisheye, and a Kaidan tripod head. As others have stated, the time it takes to get a nice sphere with fisheye's is time consuming. Even if you pop the few hundred $$$ for the software to stitch three fisheye's, you still need to spend a lot of time tweaking the stitching. Say 20 mins to 1 hour playing with and tweaking the images. Equipment - Special tripod head and lens. $600 approx.
One shots are nice and fast - but are not even close to providing a crisp or detailed image. About 2 minutes to convert the image. Equipment - monopod and lens. $600 approx.
Stitching - Still the best route. There are plenty of stitching programs that can do the job for you. Lots of detail. Zoomable to the extreme of you use the max image sizes. 5 - 15 mins stitching. Equipment - tripod head and wide-angle lens. $600 approx.
All three require software to make panos and tours. Most of the one-shots include the software, but often it is not as feature rich as others on the market. My Remote Reality lens came with IBM Hot Media (requires plug-in, and takes forever to use) and a Java viewer that's no longer made - and has an imbedded link to a dead web page. So I can't really use either of these.
Rick
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kla
Posts: 14
Location:
Registered: 29 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 22 Aug 2004 at 20:33 GMT
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so a wide angel lens turned up side ways would give me "top" and "bottom" view of a a wall but I still have to take multiple pictures. I guess what confuses me is the pictures VR that allow you to see the sky and the ground and the picture(s) looks great.
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simply steve
Posts: 16
Location: Michigan,
Registered: 16 Aug 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 23 Aug 2004 at 1:19 GMT
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kla -
if you wanted the full 180 degree vFOV by stitching rectilinear images you'd have to do multi-row stitching. You'd take three rows of images (somewhere between like 9 - 16) and one top and one bottom image. Next, you'd have to put them together in a program that handles multi-row (like stitcher). The result is much more expensive, time and financially. Otherwise, you can do single row which will still give you a fairly good vertical field of view, and generally well accepted by the real estate industry. Software is much cheaper, too.
Can anybody give ballpark time estimates on the multi-row panos as compared to the single-row ones?
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VistaGrande
Posts: 281
Location: San Antonio, Texas, United States
Registered: 12 May 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 25 Aug 2004 at 2:40 GMT
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If you want to try a fisheye for your camera, then the best place to look for one is from Raynox. When I first started virtual tours, I had a Canon G-2. I decided to shoot with fisheye for the following reasons: Cheaper Software to stitch (although not always the case); requires fewer images, thus saving memory card space; requires a cheaper panorama head. In a nutshell, it's less time and money, which is what I was looking for.
So the hard part was trying to find a fisheye lens for my G-2. The only place I found was through Raynox. Raynox makes lenses in Japan and their lense are fantastic! The lens is a 180 full frame fisheye, meaning you'll have a 180 in the long side and about a 120 on the short side.
You can do a search for Raynox on Google and you'll find their site. If they don't have it for your camera, chances are no one does.
good luck!
David
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ddd
Posts: 783
Location: vancouver, Canada
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 28 Aug 2004 at 18:33 GMT
updated: 9 Sep 2004 at 17:27 GMT
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jmanibusan
Posts: 10
Location:
Registered: 11 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 31 Aug 2004 at 0:49 GMT
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that would depend on the actuall VT program itself and the type of output file formta type. some support Immersive some don't, a few support one shot lens, some don't. file output should also be considered. Will you output to java,quicktime or flash format? all three have there pros & cons and they all have different features. all three require a there perspective plugins, of the three flash is the most common plugin found on most pc's today and is most widley used.i too will be getting into the same business and offering this service. those factors are what i took into account when i chose my equipment.
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No One
Posts: 501
Location: Sri Lanka
Registered: 14 May 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 31 Aug 2004 at 1:14 GMT
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I would say producing multi-row 360 by 180 tours for real estate for sale is a very quick way to go out of business and starve. I don't know where you are, but in my neck of the woods some companies sell this for $59.95 or even less.
Well done 360 multi-row is expensive and extremely time consuming. The proper equipment, unless home grown, is quite expensive. The shoot takes alot longer, but the post processing takes even longer. The exact time increase depends on how wide of a non fisheye lense you use. At best I would say multi-row 360 by 180's take at least 10 times as long verses mirrors - very fast, or fish eye, quite fast.
For real estate VR's use one shot mirrors or fish eye attachment using pro-consumer digital cameras, it's fast, quick and after gas, car miles, time, and expenses they let you maker a bit of money. 
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jmanibusan
Posts: 10
Location:
Registered: 11 Jul 2004
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Re: should I use a fisheye?
Posted: 31 Aug 2004 at 1:38 GMT
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well said Robert Harshman. Time is a major factor if you are going to produce VT for the real estate industry and make any $ . Travel,setup,shooting and editing is where you you'd spend most of your time.a one-shot lens will cut that down substantialy. if i'll be doing a shoot in a specific city i'd send out faxed notice to those participating agents notifiying them of my availability in that area and maybe offer a special for tours in that area..
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