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Thread: Which lens?

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mskp

Posts: 293
Location:
Registered: 19 Oct 2006
Which lens?
Posted: 29 Nov 2013 at 18:33 GMT
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Hi!
Actually I´m shooting with my Nikon D5200 and 10.5 lens.
For some situations I would prefer a setup that involves fewer shots and therefore easier and faster stitching. Actually I think to build a combo for car interiors.
If I choose to keep the D5200, will a 8mm (Samyang or similar) lens and a NN Ultimate R1/10 head help? I understand that a zenith and nadir shot might be necessary, but tilting the head a few degrees up will close the zenith. Anyway as I shoot horizontaly, both zenith and nadir will be at the windows which anyway have to be masked out.
Am I right? Will that setup work?
Thanks for your feedback.

Regards, Martin
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Smooth

Posts: 4261
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 30 Nov 2013 at 3:50 GMT
updated: 30 Nov 2013 at 3:52 GMT
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Hi Martin,

The Samyang 8mm is the same shooting pattern as the Nikkor 10.5mm and will not work as you have planned. Samyang is actually 9mm and a 180° diagonal fisheye.

You would need a circular 180° fisheye such as the Sigma 8mm. That would get you down to 4 rotational shots with +5 to +7.5° tilt. The nadir hole would be all in the glass no problem. Using a NN R1/10 would be ideal.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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mskp

Posts: 293
Location:
Registered: 19 Oct 2006
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 1:07 GMT
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Hi Smooth!
I knew you would be the one.
So that means that I have to buy the Sigma 8 and not the Samyang 8 to get what I want? Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the difference between the Samyang and the Sigma (besides the price smile. Aren´t they both 8mm? Turning the lens a few degress can´t I get the 180º with the Samyang?

Regards, Martin
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Smooth

Posts: 4261
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 3:51 GMT
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mskp said:

... what is the difference between the Samyang and the Sigma (besides the price smile. Aren´t they both 8mm? Turning the lens a few degress can´t I get the 180º with the Samyang?
Sigma 8mm = 180° Circular, Samyang 8mm = 180° Diagonal. If you were to rotate the Samyang 40° or so with some tilt up you most likely can close the zenith. But the rotational shots will be the same amount and the nadir hole will be quite large. Also I have found control point placement became more difficult when you shoot with a rotated lens. (Although this may OK on a car interior) I fear though it would be a false economy to purchase the Samyang 8mm based on your requirements.

As a stated previously the Samyang has the same shooting sequence as the Nikkor 10.5mm and is NOT really an 8mm lens. If you rotate your Nikkor 10.5mm and tilt it up and attempt the close the zenith hole this is pretty much what you will get with the Samyang 8mm Fisheye.

Upshot, you want a Sigma 8mm circular fisheye!

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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markkuk

Posts: 29
Location: Finland
Registered: 3 Apr 2011
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 10:40 GMT
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mskp said:

what is the difference between the Samyang and the Sigma (besides the price smile. Aren´t they both 8mm?

They use different mapping functions to create the image, so they have different field of view despite the same focal length.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisheye_lens#Mapping_functi...
Samyang is a stereographic fisheye and Sigma is an equisolid angle fisheye lens.
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mskp

Posts: 293
Location:
Registered: 19 Oct 2006
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 14:06 GMT
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Hi!
Thanks for your help. Now I understand.
I will try how big the nadir results in tilting the 10.5 a little up to close the zenith. Under the car interior shooting conditions it would be a great help.
Now I have to get into the car to change the NN head for the zenith shot with the resulting risk of moving it (the car and the head). If I can resolve it with only rotate the head in a fixed position it will help a lot. No matter how many shots. Obviously it all depends how big the nadir hole results, which will be at the drivers door and even seat. To patch it I usually use now the passengers door.
How many degrees should I tilt the 10.5 up to close the zenith? I know I could (and why not should) test it myself. smile but why not start with something already known.
It is not necessary to close it even at all, as mentioned before, the center of the zenith is placed at the center of the passengers window which will be masked out.
Thanks again and regards, Martin
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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 20:49 GMT
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"fewer shots and therefore easier and faster stitching"

Very common misconception unless you are taking multi row panoramas. Ease of stitching is more a function of calibrating your rig than the number of shots, no matter which camera/lens/pano head combo you use.

If you stick with your Nikon lens you can tilt up 90 degrees in order to cover the Zenith. You should have plenty of overlap for control point generation. A NN5 style pano head works best here. That means reaching into the car to tilt up, then down. Sounds like you want to avoid this due to possible rig movement.

If I were to start shooting car interiors I would stick with the Sigma 8mm lens and an R1 pano head set to 5 degrees upward tilt. 4 shots around leaves only a small Nadir hole. The Zenith is covered. The resulting Nadir hole is so small a hand held Nadir shot taken from the passenger side will cover the Nadir hole.
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mskp

Posts: 293
Location:
Registered: 19 Oct 2006
Re: Which lens?
Posted: 1 Dec 2013 at 21:59 GMT
updated: 1 Dec 2013 at 22:15 GMT
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Hi, Dennis!
I know the existence of that misconception and I also understand where it comes from and what you mean. In my case it is not necessarily the shooting nor stitching what I´m trying to make faster, despite that in part I told so in my original post. As you well said it is more to avoid a possible rig movement and the possible resulting stitching problems. Actually it is not only the rig I´m afraid to move, but the car, which is impossible not to. As I shoot horizontal thru the drivers window, when I get into the car (to turn the NN for the zenith shoot) it moves. That would not be a problem if the camera with tripod is inside the car.
I´m not starting to shoot car interiors (hundreds done already) but I´m always searching to improve my workflow. What you stated in your last paragraph is what moved me to start this topic. Actually that is what I tought because of some research, but silently hoped that a Samyang (because of its price) would be the same.
Thanks again.
Regards, Martin
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csmith8354

Posts: 1
Location:
Registered: 8 Dec 2013
Sigma 8mm DG Vs Nikkor 16mm ?
Posted: 8 Dec 2013 at 23:24 GMT
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Hi I've had and shot with the 16 mm Nikkor on my D800 and it was good but I've seen a few nice shots with the new Sigma 8mm DG.

I've never used that Sigma lens but I am familiar with Sigma quality and was impressed.

Anyone have experience with the new version of the Sigma with the FX Nikon. If not anyone know of a link or site offering an unbiased opinion of both lenses ?

Thanks
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Smooth

Posts: 4261
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Sigma 8mm DG Vs Nikkor 16mm ?
Posted: 9 Dec 2013 at 4:16 GMT
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csmith8354 said:

Anyone have experience with the new version of the Sigma with the FX Nikon.
The Sigma 8mm on a full sized sensor camera like the D800, Canon 5D etc will give a full circular images 180°. You will waste many pixels of the sensor to black. While it will work fine and the images quality is good. Expect the resolution to be about half that of the 16mm. Reasons for owing one for use a full frame sensor would be for when moving objects need to be captured without the mucking around of post production masking etc. That and the fact you minimise the shots down to 3 rotation shots +5°/+7.5° tilt up @ 120° click stops. Nadir shot as required.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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