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Thread: First 360 pano :)

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Anaconda

Posts: 26
Location:
Registered: 7 Sep 2013
First 360 pano :)
Posted: 7 Sep 2013 at 10:18 GMT
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Welcome everyone smile

This is my first post wink I hope with Your help I will start new 360 view photo adventure (cubical, cylindrical) smile

My accessories:

Camera - Nikon D7000
www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/used-dig...

Lens - Nikon 10-24 mm
www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/10-24mm.htm

Tripod - Velbron C-400
www.amazon.co.uk/Velbon-C-400-Video-Tripod-PH-248...

What I would like achieve? Firstly I most interested in 360 view of interior cars. Here is one example:
tourwrist.com/panos/18268

I have some questions:

1) Is it possible do 360 view like above with my equipment?

2) I would like buy pano head. I am thinking about shop.nodalninja.com/nn3-mkii-stand-alone-no-pkg-f... or www.red-door.co.uk/pages/productpages/pano-MAXX-P...
Which one do you think is better in this range of price and why?

3) Do I need any tripod center plate for my Velbron C-400 tripod? How can I connect my tripod with pano head?

4) Which one software do you suggest for this equipment? (mostly FREE softwares for beginning but I will also consider payable ones)

5) How many photographs should I do to achieve 360 view and how I should do this. With fisheye lens this is easy but with my lens probably more difficulty sad I have some amateur photography experience wink

Thank you very much for all Your help smile

Have a nice weekend everyone
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Smooth

Posts: 4257
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 7 Sep 2013 at 11:28 GMT
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Camera choice is fine.

Lens is OK, 10.5mm Nikkor Fisheye would serve you better. But you can use the 10-24mm (Warning: Pay little attention to Ken Rockwell).

Tripod brand is fine, model is not the best.
Try this instead www.amazon.co.uk/Velbon-200R-Sherpa-Tripod-Panhea...
Tripod needs to be capable of having the panhead removable to replace with Panohead. The 200R is good for this.

Nodal Ninja 3 MKII Panohead is your best bet for the money. (No question).

Software:
Free: Hugin
Paid: PTGui, PTGui Pro, AutoPano Pro, AutoPano Giga

How many shots? See www.vrwave.com

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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Bob Stone

Posts: 386
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 8 Sep 2013 at 1:17 GMT
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For auto interiors you won't need the tripod. Usually you just shoot through the driver (or passenger) side window.

You can use a mono-pod or for a cheaper alternative, buy a 2.4mmx2400mm wooden dowel and place a hanger bolt in the end. You then mount your pano head to the bolt and go in through the window.

tinyurl.com/khysk4u
tinyurl.com/lxkklt9

More elaborate setup using the window method here:
tinyurl.com/lp8z8go
tinyurl.com/mu57ps3
tinyurl.com/kssr368

For a pano head, I recommend the NN3 MKII Factory Irregular: tinyurl.com/kwjy277
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Anaconda

Posts: 26
Location:
Registered: 7 Sep 2013
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 8 Sep 2013 at 12:19 GMT
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Hello

Thank you very much for all Your help smile

1) TRIPOD. Where should I locate tripod inside the car? On the front of center armrest (between front seats)? Velbon 200R Sherpa folded size is around 60cm with center column. Isn't it too high for car interior shoots? Maybe lower tripod (around 40cm legs) could be better? What do you think? Which one do You recommend?

2) PANORAMA HEAD. Thank you for link with cheaper price 107.41 pounds (factory irregular). Shipping cost to UK is 35.56 pounds so in total will be around 145 pounds

I also thought about automatic panorama head www.youtube.com/watch?v=y61KWJeVKUk but prices start from 300 pounds confused
Is it easy change position of manual head inside the car without move a tripod? I haven't fisheye lens so probably to get 360 around photographs I will have to change camera position more than 10 times sad

3) 10-24mm NIKON LENS. I can't find my lens here www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/nikon/ This one 12-24mm is similar. Is it good amount of photographs and angles for my lens 10-24mm? Minimum (1.5x): N, 8 images every 45° at -30° pitch, 8 images every 45° at +30°, Z so in total 18 photographs plus one additional nadir without tripod?

Should I set my lens for 10mm wide or 12mm? How about F and how far from camera should I set sharp point? I never shoot in RAW format. Is it necessary?

4) SOFTWARE I am not sure how it works because I haven't software yet. After I will do 19 photographs can I create 360 view in one software or I have to first merge that photographs to cubic view (6 photographs) and then import them to proper software and create 360 view?

5) I am not sure of this technique through the driver (or passenger) side window. I don't know how I could proper operate wooden dowel in 18 positions because I haven't fisheye lens so probably I have to do this amount of shoots.

Maybe someone have any photographs from behind the photo scene how it looks during photo shoots?

Thank you again for all Your help smile
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 8 Sep 2013 at 17:25 GMT
updated: 8 Sep 2013 at 17:27 GMT
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Anaconda said:

2) PANORAMA HEAD. Thank you for link with cheaper price 107.41 pounds (factory irregular). Shipping cost to UK is 35.56 pounds so in total will be around 145 pounds

For the NN3, ensure that you order an appropriate detent plate (if not included) to suit the shooting configuration you intend to use, i,e, the number shots around.

3) 10-24mm NIKON LENS. I can't find my lens here www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/nikon/

Use the figures for the Sigma 10-20mm lens.

Should I set my lens for 10mm wide or 12mm?

10mm

How about F and how far from camera should I set sharp point?

Learn about the hyperfocal distance here:

www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/dof/hyper...

I never shoot in RAW format. Is it necessary?

It's not essential, but start shooting RAW now

4) SOFTWARE I am not sure how it works because I haven't software yet. After I will do 19 photographs can I create 360 view in one software or I have to first merge that photographs to cubic view (6 photographs) and then import them to proper software and create 360 view?

A variety of options are available. A common way is to stitch the camera images into an equirectangular image that contains the entire 360x180 view. This single image file can then be fed into applications that generate the files necessary to display the panorama for various viewers and platforms. Examples of such applications are Pano2VR, KRPano, Flash Panorama Player. But there are other alternatives too.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4257
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 8 Sep 2013 at 18:19 GMT
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Your tripod choice for shooting car interiors is likely to be different to those suggested for regular panorama shoots.

You could look to the Velbon Ultra Maxi Mini
www.amazon.co.uk/Velbon-Maxi-Mini-D-Ultra/dp/B001...

It should be noted if you choose to shoot car interior panoramas through the window using the side method you will require a panohead rotator with a lock.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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Anaconda

Posts: 26
Location:
Registered: 7 Sep 2013
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 5:41 GMT
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Good morning smile

1) HEAD - What do you mean John 'appropriate detent plate'

which one plate should I buy?

2) LENS - I am confused. What does it mean 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.7x? If minimum shoots are 6 images ... so why recommended are 4 confused

Minimum (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 6 images every 60° at -30° pitch, 6 images every 60° at +30°, Z

Recommended (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required

Alternative (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 8 images every 45° at -30° pitch, 8 images every 45° at +30° pitch, Z

Minimum (1.7x): N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, Z

which one settings from above should I use for my Nikon lens?


3) F - F8 should be the sharpnest one. Am I right? How far from the camera? I think around 50cm.

4) SOFTWARE Does every pano software read RAW format? Does photoshop stitch images into equirectangular image?

5) TRIPOD I am not sure now which one tripod is better (more universal), regular size or mini confused

thanx smile
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markkuk

Posts: 29
Location: Finland
Registered: 3 Apr 2011
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 9:44 GMT
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1) You should get the 45/60 degree (6/8 stops) plate if you're buying just one.
2) 1.5x, 1.6x and 1.7x refer to crop factors of various APS-C camera bodies. Nikon DX bodies like your D7000 have 1.5x crop factor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor
The minimum amount of shots is 14 and the recommended sequence is 17 shots for 1.5x crop factor and a 10mm lens.
3) No opinion about this one.
4) Some pano programs can read RAW, but in my opinion it's better to use a dedicated RAW developer before stitching.
5) Regular size tripod is better for general use, mini tripods are for special applications.
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 10:31 GMT
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Anaconda said:

1) HEAD - What do you mean John 'appropriate detent plate' which one plate should I buy?

The detent plate enables you to quickly rotate the head into a set of pre-defined positions where the head clicks into place. Thus, for 4 shots around, the click stops are set at 90 degree intervals (360/4). Choose a detent plate with the number of click stops that you will want to use when you shoot your panoramas. This will depend on the angle of view of the lens you use and therefore its focal length.

2) LENS - I am confused. What does it mean 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.7x? If minimum shoots are 6 images ... so why recommended are 4 confused

Minimum (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 6 images every 60° at -30° pitch, 6 images every 60° at +30°, Z

Recommended (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required

Alternative (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 8 images every 45° at -30° pitch, 8 images every 45° at +30° pitch, Z

Minimum (1.7x): N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, Z
which one settings from above should I use for my Nikon lens?

1.5x is the "crop factor" of your D7000 camera. This means that a lens of focal length f on your camera behaves like a lens of f x 1.5 focal length on a fullframe camera (the frame size of a 35mm film camera). i.e. its angle of view is the same. The value of f x 1.5 is often referred to as the 35mm equivalent focal length. The longer the equivalent focal length, the more shots you will need to cover the 360x180 view because of the smaller angle of view. There may be alternative ways of covering this view according to how much overlap of the images you want and how the images overlap. You may want to trade size of overlap for total number of images.

3) F - F8 should be the sharpnest one. Am I right? How far from the camera? I think around 50cm.

Many lenses give their best quality at around f/8. This is not true of all lenses, though, but you won't go far wrong if you stick to that as a general rule of thumb. Focus setting will depend on the subject of the panorama. Use the hyperfocal distance for the near and far distances needed.

) SOFTWARE Does every pano software read RAW format? Does photoshop stitch images into equirectangular image?

Not every panorama software will handle RAW format. However, it is far preferable to convert the RAW images into TIFF format as you can make adjustments to ensure optimum quality - e.g. by correcting chromatic aberration and reducing noise. Photoshop's Photomerge does have a spherical option but it cannot be generally recommended. Hugin and Microsoft ICE are far superior free options, and then there's PTGui and Autopano Pro/Giga.

5) TRIPOD I am not sure now which one tripod is better (more universal), regular size or mini)

That's a personal decision. No one tripod is ideal for all situations.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4257
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 13:39 GMT
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You generally do not get any way of "locking" the panohead with the lower models with interchangeable detent plates. This is a consideration you need to think about with the panorama photography you plan to take. If you require a lock and wish to change detent/click stops on the fly you should consider an advance rotator like the NN RD8/RD16 for example.

f/5.6 to f/11.0 is a good general range for the lenses used for panorama shooting.

You should think of a RAW image as something akin to a Film negative that needs processing. You process with software adjusting all things until satisfied, then save as 16 Bit .tif images ready for stitching.

As a starting tripod, stick with the Velbon Sherpa 200R that I pointed out in an earlier post. There is no "one" tripod to suit every situation.

All recommendations offered to you by myself and others are to get you going. Panorama photography can get fairly involved and requires advanced equipment to cover certain situations. All cost money!

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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Anaconda

Posts: 26
Location:
Registered: 7 Sep 2013
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 19:01 GMT
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Hi

1) Thank you for 1.5x explanation smile

2) Detent Plate Maybe I wrong but in this set shop.nodalninja.com/nn3-mkii-starter-package-fact... is detent plate (gold color - visible on 5th photo) with 8 holes what probably means I could do 8 images every 45 degrees but I must rotate every step/hole manually. Is it only difference between this manual rotator and advance rotators which you offer me? So with this plate and my lens I must do 18 photographs + one hand held nadir shot for remove tripod?

3) Lens I have 10-24mm lens for my Nikon D7000 camera. This is specification for 10mm Sigma lens:

Minimum (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 6 images every 60° at -30° pitch, 6 images every 60° at +30°, Z

Recommended (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required

Alternative (1.5x, 1.6x): N, 8 images every 45° at -30° pitch, 8 images every 45° at +30° pitch, Z

So only one option for me from above is ALTERNATIVE because original decent gold plate has 8 holes? Is it proper amounts and degrees of shoots for my lens?

N + 8X45degreesX-30degrees + 8X45degreesX+30degrees + Z

4) Tripod Good to have both these tripods but no money at the moment sad Velbon Sherpa 200R is more universal but not sure of legs length for cars interiors. Velbon Ultra Maxi Mini is probably better for car interiors but I think no more other shoot options for different panoramas. In Ultra Maxi Mini head isn't removable but maybe ball head could replace leveler smile

Thank you for all advices smile
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John Houghton

Posts: 3896
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 20:55 GMT
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Anaconda said:

2) Detent Plate Maybe I wrong but in this set shop.nodalninja.com/nn3-mkii-starter-package-fact... is detent plate (gold color - visible on 5th photo) with 8 holes what probably means I could do 8 images every 45 degrees but I must rotate every step/hole manually.

The list of Features has this item line:

2nd generation Camera Mounting Plate (CP-CP2) Detent Rings: 15/0, 45/60

So two detent rings (plates) are supplied (they're double sided): 24 stops & none; 8 stops & 6 stops.

John
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Smooth

Posts: 4257
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 4:59 GMT
updated: 11 Sep 2013 at 4:59 GMT
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Anaconda said:

In Ultra Maxi Mini head isn't removable but maybe ball head could replace leveler smile
Head is 100% removable I use one of these tripods with NN3 MKII with RD3L shop.nodalninja.com/nn3-mkii-with-rd3l-6-8-30-wit...

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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Anaconda

Posts: 26
Location:
Registered: 7 Sep 2013
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 14:33 GMT
updated: 15 Sep 2013 at 14:36 GMT
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Hello

Velbon Sherpa 200R and Nodal Ninja 3 MKII I should get this week smile THANK YOU for all advices smile Velbon Ultra Maxi Mini will be my next buy (special for car interiors)

I have one more question wink

Which one software will be the most universal for me?
1) I would like stitch images together into 360/180 spherical panoramas
1) I would like do single 360/180 spherical panoramas (cars interiors)
2) I would like do 360/180 spherical panoramas tours (property tours)

which one software can manage all of these above and which one have the most useful features which I could use to do it professionally? (Software for PC and Mac)

thank you for all advices smile
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Smooth

Posts: 4257
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: First 360 pano :)
Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 15:23 GMT
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It is not impossible to use the Velbon Sherpa 200R for car interiors but it will be somewhat limiting. Two legs on back seat and one leg on floor (or similar on a front seat). You must learn clone and patching techniques.

Stitching software considerations that can make tours also?
The only one that will do both I can think of is Easypano Panoweaver. Is is not though the best stitching software on the market. It can do a decent job and will allow the internal linking of scenes along with hotspots and menu etc. www.easypano.com (More advanced tour options with Tourweaver).

Typically I would recommend PTGui Pro www.ptgui.com for stitching and Pano2VR for tour making. www.gardengnomesoftware.com (PTGui Pro can also publish single scene panoramas)

You could also use Autopano Pro/Giga and Panotour/Pro from www.kolor.com

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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