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Thread: New Android smart phones and Flash

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Hans Nyberg

Posts: 2873
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 8:11 GMT

DennisS said:

Sorry to spoil the party, but on my Galaxy S3 I get a network error. There is no flash version, only the HTML5 version. It is the exact same code as the version on my web site. I copied over the files and entered the local address. The browser found the files but refuses to run. Flash does not work and will not load on this phone.


I have not tried the HTML5 versions locally yet on my Galaxy Note 2 but it may very well be that which gives you the Network problem.

Chrome on desktop does not show HTML5 locally without a special start app which sets it into a local store solution.

However I assume your SIII has the same browser as my Note so you should have no problem installing Flash from Adobe directly. Just follow the link to Adobe flash I posted.

Hans
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Flashificator

Posts: 147
Location: Lima, Peru
Registered: 16 May 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 16:01 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2013 at 16:07 GMT

Smooth said:

I thought fair enough when mobile devices were first introduced.

.............

So far it's created many a headache, added to workflow and flooded forums with questions, demands and requests.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au


Spot on! ... says I who am finally about to bring to birth a native H5/WebGL solution for Flashificator based projects.

The most stupid thing about it all, was the way that our community members jumped ship and joined the Flash hate crowd... as if it would benefit them and their sector, to have more problems, less compatibility, more pissed off people who can't get anything to work on their device, simply because there isn't a single solution for everything, as it used to be with Flash.

Then there are those who (still) complain about Flash having been proprietary code, closed, owned by a single company blah, blah... and that it is much better having HTML5 which is open source blah, blah... they clearly don't understand what they are saying. Sure, Flash is proprietary, but it has been so totally open for everyone to access, that it has never been a problem. Having the "open source html5" means this (as an example): You are LOCKED DOWN by Apple, unable to pick and choose what you might want to use on whatever iDevice you happen to have. You are not allowed to do this or that, you can't do this or that, the features are limited to this and that... it reeks of closed mindedness and the company sitting on top of the devices doesn't listen to anyone or anything.

In my experience: Adobe has listened to people's concerns and fixed things when issues were brought up. I have spoken to support people and had them take care of global issues. Apple on the other hand, does not listen. Those who want to get in contact with their support: Good luck... go to a church and pray you will get some responses... that is the closest you will get to a solution.

... And then we have the result of all of this: Lots of Android things that can't perform, even the same OS version doesn't work the same on different equipments, hits and missses... no this is of NO benefit for content creators or content viewers.

I am not saying that it won't get better over time, what I am saying, is that we are still around 2 years away from the first suggested stable release of html5, and there is a LOT to be done before it can be considered as a stable and useful platform for what we do. For professional works, what we have now is just plain pathetic. Offering a company a mobile solution for panorama tours:

"Yeah, sure it is possible! you just have to let your visitors know which brands and models and versions are compatible, and which issues they may experience in which equipment.... if you don't, they might think the tour is broken, their phone is failing, the os is bad ... they need to know!"

That is NOT the way things should be. When there was Flash, one could count on it working (and failing) everywhere. With the end of Flash on mobiles, we do have consistency: Things don't work, but when working - things are limited in nature and features. Things are nowhere close to what Flash was capable of 2 years ago, and there is a long way to go still.

It would have been so much better if things had been properly prepared and no one would have started using a partially working platform for professional works until it had been made ready for the big times.

I find it pathetic, that a few (yes, very few) percentages of Apple lovers were allowed to destroy a very capable platform, without having a capable replacement at hand.

Shameful really.

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Trausti

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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 16:37 GMT
The Adobe Flash install is blocked and absolutely will not install on this phone.

Different Android based models from the same manufacturer behave differently.

Unless you have an S3, please do not make assumptions that something "should work". Just because it works on an S2 or Note does not mean it will work on an S3. You have to put your hands on an S3 and give it a try. An LG Nexus 4 crashed whenever I tried to view panoramas from my web site. That really embarrassed the salesman at the T-Mobile store.

I have tried 4 different browsers. Each has issues ranging from very twitchy display to completely crashing the phone. Nothing works properly for a basic panorama stored locally.

I am with Trausti - people complained about Flash - BUT IT WORKED AND DID NOT CRASH MY DEVICE!

I am not after showing a complete tour. All I want to do is show people what a spherical panorama is when asked. I get most of my questions when I am in the middle of shooting a pano using my monopod. Currently I pull out my iPod Touch (which has yet to NOT display a local pano correctly). The objective is to carry FEWER devices, not MORE.

Being a programmer I know that there is a way to get this to work. It is just a matter of how much time I want to spend on this. Just because something is hard does not mean it is not worth doing.

When QTVR was killed off people were worried about what we would use. My response was "we will use whatever technology is available at that time." With Adobe dropping support for Mobile Flash, these are the growing pains we need to go through in order to do what we want.

THIS REALLY SUCKS!
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Smooth

Posts: 4261
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 17:02 GMT
People say that panorama forums are less active and generally people are less interested. I have to say, like many others on this forum. That my interest has decreased and I don't contribute anywhere near as much. This is after more than a decade of support to the cause and general enthusiasm to help, share and discuss.

The one factor that quashed my enthusiasm? HTML5 devil and the mobile question, complaint - one post after another.

I'm all for the mobile solution, if that's HTML5 devil then OK. Just pull your fingers out and set a standard in stone for developers to aim for. The problem is APPLE with every iOS release has move the goal posts. At times even multiple times between iOS releases. Anybody silly enough to think this tactic has stopped or stabilized is living in dreamland. Your HTML5 devil tours working correctly today "will" 100% fail in some way in the not to distant future.

Needless to say, on this matter I have and do agree with Trausti and also agree the whole matter against Flash is shameful. But it is the poison chosen by the anti Flash brigade. The pity is, we all have to choke on it!

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 17:11 GMT
Very interesting thread to read...Great contributions Smooth, Flashificator...As a person who knows nothing about the past of VT things become more clear in my eyes..
Burak
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DemonDuck

Posts: 418
Location:
Registered: 10 Mar 2011
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 18:36 GMT

DennisS said:

The objective is to carry FEWER devices, not MORE.


Someday, a bolt of illumination will hit the industry and they will figure out how to put a phone in a laptop instead of trying to make a phone into a laptop.
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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 19:57 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2013 at 20:05 GMT

Smooth said:

At the end of the day there is only one company to blame and that is clearly APPLE (the mover of goal posts).

You can blame the death of Flash on mobile, on the battery-draining memory-crashing behavior of Flash movies and games. The loss of Flash panoramas on mobile is minor collateral damage in a larger war.

It’s instructive to read Steve Jobs’ reasons for rejecting Adobe Flash on Apple’s mobile devices (April 2010). If you had been in his shoes at the time, you might have made the same decision.

www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Flash does its computing in software. Jobs wanted to do it directly in hardware.

You can criticize Apple all you want, but the company has been making products that people want to buy, and has been leading innovation in the mobile market. Tablet sales across all brands have skyrocketed in 2012, to an estimated 172.4 million units.

www.networkworld.com/news/2012/120512-tablets-264...

Panoramas may not look terribly impressive on smart phones, but they’re quite enjoyable on tablets. As mobile devices overtake personal computers for web browsing, I predict that Flash will be used less and less by web site developers.

Does anyone have old LPs, film negatives, slides, audio tapes, videotapes, DVDs, CDs lying around? All good technology in its time. There’s nothing to be gained by sitting around grumbling about how much better it was the good old days.

Judy
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Flashificator

Posts: 147
Location: Lima, Peru
Registered: 16 May 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 21:50 GMT

Judy-A said:

Does anyone have old LPs, film negatives, slides, audio tapes, videotapes, DVDs, CDs lying around?


Difference is that BETTER alternatives were provided, then came a transition period where people went away from using the older and not so convenient products of the past. That is the right way to do things.

The whole "html5 is the future, flash is dead" stupidity was started before there was anything really ready to replace the technology we had at the time, and now, more than 2 years later, we STILL don't have anything that can replace the technology we used back then (and still use).

As to Steve's claims and lies (yes, those were lies he uttered), the real reason behind his decision to forbid Flash was so that Apple could make more money on their own stuff. Nothing wrong in that at all, but he could at least have been honest. If he was so concerned about battery life, the best thing to do in order to have more battery life, would be to disable the phone function of the phone, and disable or entirely remove the screen on the tablets... that would have significantly increased the battery life, and saved people countless hours.

Another one of the "innovative" nature of Apple, is their way to block people from using software that THEY (Apple) deems to be bad for them... image viewers that can display artistic nudity... whooha... that's not to be permissible, so they block the sales of image viewers that can show such outrageous things. And software that has internal mentioning of other ways to purchase it (let's say that a software developer has his own shopping portal for PC version of a game, and in the App store version of the game there is a link or just mere mention of the website where the software can be had for Android or PC's... the game will not be permitted on sale in the App store. This is innovation and tolerance and freedom loving behaviour? No, of course it is not. This is big business making financial decisions, but they use propaganda and lies to defend their decisions. It works wonders to convince people that they are doing the "right" thing.

Adobe did a lot of crap in response to Apple's assassination attempt... one of which was to fire their entire Flash programming team, giving Flex away - open sourcing it (and nothing has been done for Flex since then... so much for "open source is best" claims.

Our sector (panoramas/object movies/360 videos/tours) is very small in the photographic sector, and when the very basis for us being able have tools of our trade made is shaken and dismantled, we should be outraged, and not jump on some "Steve said so" bandwagon and accept the death of the best tools we have ever had to work with. We should be fighting for maintaining what works and push for something better and more flexible and easier etc.

Just because things can be displayed into a iPod Nano, it doesn't mean we should all concentrate on making panos visible on displays that are no more than 1 inch x 1 inch in size. Human eyesight doesn't get any better just because displays are made smaller.

Tablets are an ok size for showing panos... now we just have to wait for a few years before there will be a reasonable basis for making software that works on all tablets (and not having to make 20 different players and try to have those to cover as much ground as possible... which is just pure madness).

All I want, and all my clients want, and all what my client's customers want and all their viewers want is simple:

Something that works equally on every device used to access the content. Today that is not possible... thanks to Steve and Apple and Adobe and the bandwagon Flash haters (there are people who use every chance to hammer a nail in Flash's coffin, for whatever lack of reasoning they may have).

Personally I don't care for the death of Flash - for as long as there is something better and smarter and easier to use across every platform. If Apple invented super code that was viewable on every device in the world, capable of having every device use it in the same way, I would be very happy to use it, and I would equally fight for keeping it if it was to be killed off without something equal or better being ready to replace it.

It would be great to go to sleep and wake up in a few years, when everything is resolved and there is no platform war going on... I went to a 2+ year sleep... hoping that it would be enough for things to settle down, but I was of course wrong. There are still years ahead of us, where things will not stabilize on one single solution.

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Trausti

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Bob Stone

Posts: 386
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 22:15 GMT
updated: 1 Feb 2013 at 22:18 GMT
Trausti, I haven't always agreed with your opinions but that post right there... That's the finest post I've seen on this site since I've been here, (about 6-7 years). Raw truth in it's simplest form is a beautiful thing..
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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 22:55 GMT

DemonDuck said:

... put a phone in a laptop instead of trying to make a phone into a laptop.
Or trying to make a Windows Server OS look like a phone (Server 2012!)
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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 1 Feb 2013 at 23:00 GMT
Does anyone have old LPs, film negatives, slides, audio tapes, videotapes, DVDs, CDs lying around?
I still have my 5 1/4 inch floppy disk I used in College right alongside my 1" wide punched paper tape that I used to load my program into a computer. They are both in a box right next to my Commodore VIC 20. I keep all that stuff just for posterity, not usability.
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Smooth

Posts: 4261
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 2 Feb 2013 at 8:14 GMT
updated: 2 Feb 2013 at 8:18 GMT
Judy,

It is admiral to show your heart and support for the product you favour. But it is very naive to believe the spin that Steve Jobs and Apple as a whole sprout.

Their didn't want Flash because that would have killed the Apple Store sales of Apps (period). Nothing to do with gutless performance of Apple mobile products. Hardware performance improves at every turn and Android devices are already at the performance levels once reserved for our desktop PC's that we happily used Flash with.

As Trausti mentioned, with every other change in technology something better replaced the old that worked at the change over. LP/Cassette to CD, VHS to DVD, DVD to Blu-Ray etc. Even when Apple killed their own Quicktime VR we already had far better to replace it with Flash.

Nothing changes the fact that you and so many others fill the Pano2VR forum with never ending questions, wants and suggestions on HTML5 devil and there is nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it. What I'm saying is I no longer enjoy it, because of the continued need to go back over completed work and rebuild once working tours. All because the HTML5 devil goal posts have been moved once again.

We are 2 years into this and the performance and quality is at best flaky. It's no one software company having issues it's all of them. The majors KRP, Pano2VR, FPP/Flashificator, Easypano have yet to offer anyway near the features of what we had with Flash (even on mobile devices).

Without Apple we most likely wouldn't have smart phones. So it's not all evil, but because of limitations set by them to take control of the profits we as consumers are made to suffer.

All we ask is for something that works across all platforms without one rule for this and another for that!

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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mediavets

Posts: 2145
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 2 Feb 2013 at 9:28 GMT

Judy-A said:

You can criticize Apple all you want, but the company has been making products that people want to buy, and has been leading innovation in the mobile market.
Judy


Another way of looking at it is to say that Apple (mainly by means of the force of Steve Jobs personality) has been very successful in persuading people that they want to buy what the company (dominated by him) has chosen to make.

Steve was proud of never seeking to discover the needs of customers. He believed one could never expect innovation if you were to ask people what they wanted.

The jury's out on whether Apple can continue to innovate (and persuade the masses to buy their overpriced goods) without Steve. At present Apple seems to be rapidly losing market share in smartphones and tablets.

...........

That said, the few times I've had a brief hands-on with Apple iPads and had the opportunity to view tours created with Panotour Pro they've worked reasonably well, albeit that the user controls tend not to scale effectively.

...........

I think tours targeting touch interface devices with small screens require a different UI design than tours targeting platforms (desktops and laptops) with much larger displays without multitouch support.

Andrew
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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 2 Feb 2013 at 13:53 GMT
...has been very successful in persuading people that they want to buy...
I also fell victim to this. I did not think I would be happy with an Android based phone. I love my iPod Touch. I have used other people's iPhone. After using the S3 for a couple of days I very much prefer it over the iPhone. The iPhone is not a bad phone at all. I just prefer the S3. It will be interesting to see just how far Apple will fall without its leader driving innovation. It is called "decision by committee".

I will get my panoramas to work without rooting my phone. It is just a matter of time. This is a hobby for me, so it is worth the time. Do you thing fabricating a pano head from scratch is easy? It is not. My first home made pano head ended up costing more than purchasing an M1 outright. Making the decision to machine a Samyang 7.5 lens in order to fit onto my NEX-5 was not an easy decision. The benefit was worth the risk. I do this for the enjoyment of completing a very difficult task. HTML5 is making this one a real challenge.
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DennisS

Posts: 1763
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 2 Feb 2013 at 15:13 GMT
I was able to get Opera to work, but MAN IS IT SLOW!!!

When using the S3 browser I get:
Error:Error: NETWORK_ERR: XMLHttpRequest Exception 101

I had the same error in Opera. Allowing the file protocol fixed it there.

The S3 browser does not allow the file protocol (file:///). I cannot find anywhere how to allow the file protocol. That explains why web pages load from the internet but will not locally.

Any Samsung gurus know how to enable the file protocol on the S3? Anyone know what the browser is called so I can do more research?
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