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Thread: New Android smart phones and Flash

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DennisS

Posts: 1759
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 23:58 GMT
Just came back from my local T-Mobile cell phone store. I was trying out the new Samsung S3. None of my panoramas would load due to Flash not being loaded onto the phone. The Nexus 4 simply crashed and the phone had to go through a cold reboot.

The sales rep told me that Android has pulled Flash compatability from all the new phones.

Any truth to this? If so, what is the technology to use for mobile devices? No use in getting an expensive smart phone if I cannot even show my panoramas on it.
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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 1:41 GMT

DennisS said:

The sales rep told me that Android has pulled Flash compatability from all the new phones.

Any truth to this? If so, what is the technology to use for mobile devices? No use in getting an expensive smart phone if I cannot even show my panoramas on it.


You use Pano2VR don’t you? Output your panoramas in HTML5 format. Keep the file sizes small. They can then be viewed on all mobile devices.

I’ve now added HTML5 versions to all of the panoramas on my web site.
www.judyarndt.ca/

Judy
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DennisS

Posts: 1759
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 3:12 GMT
I am currently out putting all panos with flash and html5. The html code is picking which version to display. When I was in the phone store I tried to open a pano. The flash version loaded but the pano did not look right at all.
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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 3:31 GMT
Your mobile panos are working fine for me on iPad 4. However, by the time I viewed one of your Yellowstone 2012 panoramas I had four tabs open in Safari. I’ve seen advice to avoid multiple open windows when targeting mobile users. It overloads the device’s RAM.

Your panoramas seem to be quite high resolution. They look good, but are you also including smaller cube faces for smaller screens?

Judy
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DennisS

Posts: 1759
Location: Los Anglels, United States
Registered: 1 Sep 2007
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 6:15 GMT
The cube faces for Flash go down to 512 and to 480 for html5.
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burake

Posts: 333
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Registered: 7 Jun 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 7:54 GMT
Have a look at this topic;
gardengnomesoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t...
In the mobile tab of the HTML5 output I think we'll need to create alternative screen sizes and cube face sizes...The more different models of android come on the market the more has to be done in this direction...More then shown in this tutorial:
gardengnomesoftware.com/tutorial.php?movid=17
Regards
Burak
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mediavets

Posts: 2144
Location: Isleham, Cambs., United Kingdom
Registered: 8 Feb 2008
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 8:46 GMT
updated: 28 Jan 2013 at 8:47 GMT

DennisS said:

Any truth to this?

Yes, that's true.

If so, what is the technology to use for mobile devices?


HTML5 (JHTML/javascriopt). Unfortunately the HTML5 standard has yet to be formalised let alone implemented completely on any platform.

No use in getting an expensive smart phone if I cannot even show my panoramas on it.


Currently it seems to be the case that mobile-compatible (HTML5) output form the leading panorama tour tools - krpano/Panotour Pro and Pano2VR - works well with Apple iDevices but performance is rather unpredictable and inconsistent on Android platforms due to hardware and software variations and some underlying issue with Android.

Here's what the developer of krpano has to say about it:
krpano.com/docu/html5/

Andrew
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DemonDuck

Posts: 418
Location:
Registered: 10 Mar 2011
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 10:49 GMT
I must preface what I say with a disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about.

But what about a simple map projection from an equirectangular image to a small flat image. The projection of a part of a sphere to a flat surface. The computation is fairly simple. And you don't have to do any 3D projections and rotations on multiple cube faces to give the illusion of rotation of a scene. It's a pixel pusher. You just map pixels from one image to another.

How good are the transcendental math functions on smart phones like arctan() and arccos()? Are they fast and efficient? If you are only doing a small screenfull, there's not a lot of pixels to calculate and interpolation for smoothing is easy to incorporate. It would work the same way on any device that supported transcendental math functions. All you'd have to do would be get the screen size.

Probably a wacky idea but I was just wondering. It's late and I can't sleep....
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Hans Nyberg

Posts: 2873
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 12:01 GMT
updated: 28 Jan 2013 at 12:13 GMT

DennisS said:

Just came back from my local T-Mobile cell phone store. I was trying out the new Samsung S3. None of my panoramas would load due to Flash not being loaded onto the phone. The Nexus 4 simply crashed and the phone had to go through a cold reboot.

The sales rep told me that Android has pulled Flash compatability from all the new phones.

Any truth to this? If so, what is the technology to use for mobile devices? No use in getting an expensive smart phone if I cannot even show my panoramas on it.


Not quite true.
You can not install flash from the Market (Google Play) any more. But even if they do not have a version for the 4.1 you can choose the latest 4.0 version here at the Archive and install it manually on many Jelly Bean 4.1 androids.
helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/archived-flash-pl...
If you can use it depends on the browser.

I have an Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and it has a Safari webkit browser as default. It works fine with the Flash version Flash Player 11.1.for Android 4.0 (11.1.115.36). This browser also works perfect with my KRPano HTML5 using 1024 pixels cubefaces but not with larger. Chrome standard browser for Android does not accept flash at all and the HTML5 does not work in it.

Dolphin works with HTML5 but it blocks you from using the flash plugin.

I checked Judy.s Panos and the Flash version works perfect in the default browser, but the HTML5 is very jumpy and sometimes just freezes.

Hans
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Flashificator

Posts: 147
Location: Lima, Peru
Registered: 16 May 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 14:59 GMT
HTML5 becoming the world's standard is taking a lot longer than people were claiming it would a couple of years back.... really nothing surprising about that. The hardware producers and the browser makers are clearly in no hurry to get things up to speed, and personally I don't think there will be any real clarity for the next 3-5 years. Here you can check a list of Android devices we tested with our new H5 engine, and see how they did (or didn't) do:

goo.gl/nRXGq

Some are better than others, but none of today's equipment is perfect... that also goes for iDevices.

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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 17:25 GMT
If the panorama software developers have difficulties sorting out platforms and cube face sizes for all the devices, pity the poor hobbyists like Dennis and myself.

Hans Nyberg said:

I checked Judy.s Panos and the Flash version works perfect in the default browser, but the HTML5 is very jumpy and sometimes just freezes.

Hans, my HTML5 versions do include smaller cube faces for max screen size 1024, but it seems that the Galaxy Note 2, with a 1280 x 720 screen, is picking up 1200 px cube faces. Sorry to hear about the poor performance.

I’ve noticed, even on the iPad 4, that any skin elements that need constant processing while panning - like hotspot labels or compass - degrade performance.

Does anyone have opinions on whether it’s better to allow the panorama player to chose the format for the device, or give the user a choice? In my case, I have several elaborate Flash skins that wouldn’t display well on a small screen, so I chose to make separate HTML5 versions with simpler skins.
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Flashificator

Posts: 147
Location: Lima, Peru
Registered: 16 May 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 17:42 GMT
Judy. It is not about panorama software developers inability to sort anything out, as you imply. Some software simply doesn't support what is needed for handling the basics of displaying such content.

It is like taking an old manual Remington typewriter from 1980, and expect it to keep at least the last page you typed, in memory. No matter how much you wish for that to be possible, it won´t happen, since it has no memory or other components that can memorize anything.

Just because Smartphones are called "Smart", doesn't make them any smarter than a handful of mud.

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Trausti

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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 17:58 GMT

Flashificator said:

Judy. It is not about panorama software developers inability to sort anything out, as you imply.

Trausti,

Believe me, I didn’t intend to imply that panorama software developers were falling down on the job. I was only recognizing the difficulties presented by the current market.

Hobbyists generally don’t have access to many different devices for testing. If anyone wanted to offer a panorama device testing service, there would probably be clients willing to pay.
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Flashificator

Posts: 147
Location: Lima, Peru
Registered: 16 May 2012
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 19:07 GMT
Sorry for reading your words in the wrong way.

As you can see from the document I linked to, we have done quite extensive testing on many different equipments. This was just a part of the tests we conducted, leaving out all the iDevices, which also result in different results depending on which device and version is used. By no means did the panorama world get better (immediately) when the mobile market emerged and spread. Our upcoming H5 player will be accompanied by a WebGL player to cover some more devices/browsers, and with that coverage we will be as well covered in the mobile online solutions as possible. Apps for local viewing might follow later on, but for now those are not on my priority list at all. The biggest problem is that if a browser provider changes something in their internals, it may result in all panos that previouisly worked, to be dead in the water. This is because the supposed standards, are not fully implemented or working in the same way all over the line.... but we may have better options and working environment when (if) the recommendation for a stable HTML5 for the end of 2014 will be accepted and ratified... that would be the first serious step towards an actual standard in the field... that is almost 2 years away from right now, and much can happen in the remaining time (good and bad).

It would be ideal if all devices could and would display the same content in the same way and with the same feel and look, but I guess it has been proven over and over that we simply don't live in an ideal world smile

Updating a list of compatible devices for HTML5 and WebGL and Flash panorama displays would be way too time consuming and costly for anyone I know of in our field, for it to be feasible. When we conducted our testing on around 50 devices, we did so with 3 browsers on average (native, FF and Chrome) and in a few instances we did try with other browsers as well, and with 3 different sizes of our H5 panoramas. That testing took several hours. We will eventually have to do the same test for both H5 and the WebGL player, which will result in at least a full day of testing. Testing multiple players from other providers as well, in whatever outputs they have, would only increase the time consumption... and next month there would be new devices to be tested ... and the ball will keep on rolling. If there was a general standard one could apply to all Androids, another for all iDevices and another for Blackberries etc, it would make things a lot simpler and better for everyone. I knew the Android platform was fragmented, but I did expect/hope that it would at least provide consistency within one producer's range of products. Meaning for example that since Samsung has devices that work well, that "wellness" would be general for all their products, but unfortunately that is not the case. Not even when we are talking about the same version of Android on different Samsung (or other brands) equipment.

Again, sorry for misunderstanding you previously.

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Judy-A

Posts: 582
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 20 Jan 2010
Re: New Android smart phones and Flash
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 21:48 GMT
Just to comment on Dennis' original post:

DennisS said:

The sales rep told me that Android has pulled Flash compatability from all the new phones.

It would have been more accurate to say that Adobe has pulled Flash support from mobile.

"Adobe will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser to work with new mobile device configurations (chipset, browser, OS version, etc.) following the upcoming release of Flash Player 11.1 for Android and BlackBerry PlayBook."

www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/articles/recen...

Support for Flash on desktop browsers continues.
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