Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1692
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 19 Jun 2007 at 5:45 GMT
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Hi Mark,
The panos need to be leveled, better exposed/retouched and also need more care to avoid having people cloned.
thanks for sharing,
Dorin
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 19 Jun 2007 at 13:26 GMT
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Dorin,
I agree with your comments except the bit about cloning, which of course was intentional and done with layers, and to amuse the two(four)ladies in the picture.
But you might be able to give me some help regarding exposure as I think you are using a Canon 350D with 8mm fisheye. My camera is a 300D with 7.5mm lens, so not that different from your set-up. I am having a lot of trouble getting a well balanced histogram. Two much red and not enough blue and violet. I've tried to improve this with a light blue filter and WB settings but still haven't got things right. Metering is done through the lens for manual exposure setting. What is your technique?
Mark
Incidently, I don't want to bracket because I like to take the complete 380+ degrees in 5 or 6 seconds which means upload to the memory card on the fly. 6 x 6MP in 6 seconds works OK but bracketed 18 x 6MP in 6 seconds will block the camera.
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John Houghton
Posts: 2308
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 19 Jun 2007 at 14:48 GMT
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Mark, Have you tried setting the white balance by using the grey picker on the lady's white trousers or on the grey roof? You may need to try a few different spots to get the optimum result. This is best done in the RAW converter, but I adjusted a screenshot this way using the curves tool. With a few more tweaks I got this result, which at least gets rid of the muddy cast:
John
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1692
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 19 Jun 2007 at 14:50 GMT
updated: 19 Jun 2007 at 15:04 GMT
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Mark Schuster said: I agree with your comments except the bit about cloning, which of course was intentional and done with layers, and to amuse the two(four)ladies in the picture.
I understand now, apollogise for that.
Mark Schuster said: But you might be able to give me some help regarding exposure as I think you are using a Canon 350D with 8mm fisheye. My camera is a 300D with 7.5mm lens, so not that different from your set-up. I am having a lot of trouble getting a well balanced histogram. Two much red and not enough blue and violet. I've tried to improve this with a light blue filter and WB settings but still haven't got things right. Metering is done through the lens for manual exposure setting. What is your technique?
I don't use fihseye lens, my spherical panos are produced now at 18000x9000 that can't be achieved with fisheye lens on Canon 350D, but some time ago when I've published pano I used 18-55 kit lens as I use now but with, I realised now, bad workflow then with result's as it shows in my web page.
Now I have a better workflow if I need to produce low resolution panos (6000x3000).
About metering, you're the only one which to find out, only thing you must care to measure in the same way (say, averaging between bright and dark areas around you) Consult your camera user guide and set, if it can be, to measure average and on wide area not spot, shoot in RAW and you must extract at least two tif variants, one for sky and one for lower part, making two panos then combine them (simple transparency helps), I recommend DPP, it can be downloaded free from canon website.
software.canon-europe.com/software/0026524.asp
If you managed to measure in the same way (bad or good doesn't matter but the same) you'll find out that is your constant in measurement and you'll know what is correction must be aplied, say you measure exactly opposite to sun, you might find that you must correct with 2 stops. or at 90 degrees of the sun need 1 stop correction, only you or somebody that have exactly your lens (still then after some age, deppending on storage/use conditions the lens become more or less yellow which can affect measurement of the camera)
Mark Schuster said: Incidently, I don't want to bracket because I like to take the complete 380+ degrees in 5 or 6 seconds which means upload to the memory card on the fly. 6 x 6MP in 6 seconds works OK but bracketed 18 x 6MP in 6 seconds will block the camera.
I've experienced that too, but while I've changed memory card with a big one (which turn out to be also faster) it never happen again.
Dorin
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 20 Jun 2007 at 9:41 GMT
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Guys,
Problem with colour balance solved (or improved at any rate). I had over compensated trying to adjust WB both digitally and with a filter. An experiment that didn't work. Here is a detail from another panorama with somewhat more reallistic colours.
Dorin, Please note that I am still fond of cloning!
Mark
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1692
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 20 Jun 2007 at 9:46 GMT
updated: 20 Jun 2007 at 9:59 GMT
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Mark Schuster said: Dorin, Please note that I am still fond of cloning!
You must have done something wrong, they come out much younger  this time
Dorin
p.s. I've also noted that you're still fond of level thing
.D.
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John Houghton
Posts: 2308
Location: Hitchin, United Kingdom
Registered: 17 Jan 2005
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 20 Jun 2007 at 14:32 GMT
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Mark, That's a lot better. Now you should turn your attention to maintaining highlight and shadow detail. The shadows here are clogged up and the sky is completely blown.
John
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lookdigital
Posts: 55
Location: Poland
Registered: 21 May 2007
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 29 Jun 2007 at 8:11 GMT
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Mark, the lens you have is one of the most valuable in the world when it comes to panoramas, it is maybe even sharper than the sigma f3,5, but it has a bit too much flare, you can overcome this by taking a more photos, I usualley take 7 or 8 photos, my hdr panoramas were taken with this lens: lookdigital.eu/hdr.htm
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm
Posted: 29 Jun 2007 at 9:32 GMT
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Lookdigital,
Thanks, I love the lens too but it badly suffers from flare and comet tail refraction/reflections. From what I can tell, it was manufactured between 1972 and 1977 and I wonder if this predated multi-coating.
Mark
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm
Posted: 29 Jun 2007 at 9:39 GMT
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Lookdigital,
I've just taken a quick look at your site and instructions about HDR. I'll study these later.
Mark
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lookdigital
Posts: 55
Location: Poland
Registered: 21 May 2007
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Re: First 7.5mm
Posted: 29 Jun 2007 at 16:40 GMT
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I don't know why it has so much flare, I have the same and the newer model, bohe of them behave the same, however it is possible to live with it, as I said, just take more photos so they overlap more, then you will need to correct it manually in ps on layers
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 29 Jun 2007 at 21:33 GMT
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Actually the person I got the MD Rokkor-X 7.5mm f/4 from did everything he could to discourage me from buying it, but who could resist its charm? Not me! I’m so fond of the great heavy chunky piece of glass.
Now I read somewhere that the amount of refraction within a lens increases with the stop number. That makes sense and is born out by school experiments with slit lamps. Now in the normal way one stops down as far as one can in order to increase depth of focus. It is kind of instinctive, therefore, for me to stop down if the brightness of the sun permits it, but of course with a very wide angle lenses like a 7.5mm, depth of focus is not an issue. Even at maximum f/4 it’s from a metre or two to infinity. So in order to reduce flare and comet tails should I in future shoot at maximum aperture?
Oh, and here is a picture of the Rokkor for any one who has never come across one. Peleng and Sigma, eat your hearts out!
And a handheld of a phony stormy scene (actually it was very sunny as is evidenced by the shaddows) shot this noon at f/8 complete with Hailey's Comet.
panoradiant.co.uk/Temp/wgc_pw_clr.htm
Mark
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DorinDXN
Posts: 1692
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 30 Jun 2007 at 15:06 GMT
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That's better Mark, only have a half of a red car to fix and to play with the sky.
For comete try two shoots shadowing the lens for the second one, like little eclipse, combine after.
thanks for sharing,
Dorin
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Mark Schuster
Posts: 730
Location: Welwyn Garden City, United Kingdom
Registered: 25 Jan 2006
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Re: First 7.5mm results
Posted: 30 Jun 2007 at 22:13 GMT
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Dorin,
Much as I appreciate yor help, and ignoring a half car, didn't you see the clue in what I said about a phoney stormy sky. Here is another phoney storm -
panoradiant.co.uk/Temp/wgc_pw_yel.htm
Have you worked it out?
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Taken with a yellow filter this time - they are experiments, just to see the effect of the Rokkor's built-in filters.
I agree about shading the lens - a free hand would do - but I don't have. I need both to hold the camera. Hand held, you see.
 Mark
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