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Thread: A bit further on

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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
A bit further on
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:27 GMT
updated: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:30 GMT
Hi all, as I promised to show something, I do, unfortunatelly was very windy, not suitable environment, I'll seek for another opportunity in a, say, indoor, very soon.
Well.. the link

www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/31c.html

the fullscreen doesn't work.
there are couple of keys which does something, here is the list

h, u, d, t, n, r,
also you can dragg if you press the space barr, for more precise you can use numeric key pad
8, 4, 6, 2, 7, 9

If you really mess things up there, the reload should fix it anyway smile

more interesting stuff will come.

thanks for the visit,
Dorin
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OrmarT

Posts: 111
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Registered: 11 Mar 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 20:19 GMT
I do not imagine yet what for it useful, but at least it is funny laugh
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Bob Stone

Posts: 387
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 2:36 GMT
updated: 30 Aug 2012 at 2:38 GMT
Hi Dorin, So... it looks like 3 rows of 10 around. If this is an offshoot of your "stitchless" panoramas, the possibilities are endless. Or am I way off base? If so, maybe sometime in the future goodbye PTGui? very surprised

All the keys work good except 7 & 9, I'm seeing no action for them. (Chrome 21.0.1180.83 m)
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 7:57 GMT
updated: 30 Aug 2012 at 8:25 GMT
Thanks both for reply.

Yes is stitchless with rectiliniar photos but in early stage*.
Is no goodbye PTgui which is excellent piece of software, it will create something new maybe something that is no need to use PTGui in that particular case.
Think as this scenario

Those 32 photos (3x10 + Z + N) were feeded directly to krpano, after the same process were applied to all with DPP at conversion from RAW, they could be processed by different computers even in opposite side of the world. I exagerate now but every position in the row can have its own server.
About that * Cameras haven't distorsion correction yet so maybe when will have will be trully spectacullar, as from camera the photos will go directly to internet.
More of this once I'll managed to shoot in a beautiful interior with details all over.

Was shot with 18-55mm kit lens (2005 model) on Canon 350D on a combo of NN3+RD16+EZleveler II

About controls
Fullscreen doesn't work due to Adobe restriction and you can't input keys (except few) in fullscreen.
However the key controls were simple implemented only to see that you can move, roatate, make visible rows and individual photos, the control interface will be very different.

How the key works in this example?
you must press the key repeatedly and their action is toward the last item, better I'll try to describe in follows
Pressing H you'll see the horizontal row, then repeatedly pressing 7 or 9 each photos is rotated but if you press space and click on a photo the keys cotrols that one. So it keeps in mind the photo you last space+click or the last row you make visible.
R show them all and doesn't affect the control.
Say you want to rotate each photo in horizontal row:
1) press H then numeric keys 7 or 8
or
2) H then R then numeric keys 7 or 8, is the same result except you see all the photos

The controls by all means wren't designed to be easy but to have access to each photo or to a row at once.

cheers,
Dorin

* could be rectilinar wide lenses dstorsion corrected, that's bring spectacullar earlier and make more fun as you can have allready the pano on the card when you remove the card from camera smile I'll test when I get hands on one of those.
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 11:59 GMT
A correction, sorry for that, to rotate, i.e. change roll, is with 7 and 9 keys (not 7 and 8)
2 and 8 are for pitch and 4 and 6 are for yaw. All on numeric keys on the right of the keyboard so you might not have it on a notebook though.

Also 1, 3, PgUp and PgDown does something but weren't used, you can ignore them.

cheers,
Dorin
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Smooth

Posts: 4310
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 5:57 GMT
Dorin,

This is obviously very exciting for you and your mathematic and programming skills. Not sure where or what it will lead to, but congratulations it has obviously been a labour of love.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.omnipix.com.au
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 1 Sep 2012 at 11:02 GMT
Thank you Smooth.

Some samples will come, I'll try to make them interesting.

I think variable resolution example will be interesting and usefull with the 18-55mm at different focal length in the same pano.

cheers,
Dorin
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 2 Sep 2012 at 18:49 GMT
updated: 2 Sep 2012 at 18:50 GMT
Another sample,

www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/unirii/31c.html

there is a new "row" e , besides the h,u,d,t,n with r show them all.

the e row holds high resolution inserts taken with 18-55m @ 55mm, you can see them toward the statue and the nearby church.

There are some problems left unfixed on purpose.
now the keys acts repeatedly if them are pressed a longer time.

The panorama is in lower res due to downloading time. Obviously the 18mm and 55mm is able to produce much higher resolution.

thanks for the visit,
Dorin
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 3 Sep 2012 at 20:59 GMT
updated: 3 Sep 2012 at 21:18 GMT
Hi all, there is a link to try for yourself to understand this new way to make a pano with a rectiliniar lens and a precise panohead.

The combo used were Canon 350D with 18-55m lens on a NN3+RD-16+EZ leveler 2

The "philosophy" . Feel free to jump over for quick read.

What is the connection beetwen a Rubick Cube, a cat and a precise panohead?
Well.. that cube can be scrambled in enormous number of positions, 15 figures number or more, but in real world the scrambling is much less and can be solved in less than a minute, I use to solve it in 40 seconds when I was a teenager.

A cat remember someone after the way he moves rather than the way he looks, there are other predators as well that simply don't see anything that not moves.

A precise panohead is precise indeed and where is not it can be solved with some global alghorythms after its way to move is recognised by adjusting globally all the photos like the tiles on that magic cube.

philosophy end.

the link for practice
www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/try/31c.html

After you open that link you'll se the photos in their intended positions, the photos are taked fom camera and distorsion corrected and downsampled due to download time.

row 1 horizontal - h key at 0° of tilt and each photo at 36° of yaw appart

row 2 up - u key at +45° of tilt and each photo at 36° of yaw appart

row 3 down - d key at -45° of tilt and each photo at 36° of yaw appart

But you'll see some broken features if you'll look carefully.

So how I'll fix those?
I think it might be some roll of the camera or sensor, and the tilting might not be as intended for various reasons, and I consider that can be fixed if I correct all the photos in a row with the same amount for tilt and another amount for roll.

Let's see if it's working.

After the pano is openned press d and pan down until you see the nadir hole, pay attention to the tripod's shadow.
(ignore my shadow as it didn't tell you much except I'm a bird and that explains that "cat" thing)
now press repeatedly the 7 key on numeric pad which will adjust the roll of all the photos in d row (cheat note : you have to press it 5 times)
now the tripod's shadow is fixed and I take the note as the roll is need to be fixed by 5 pressings of 7 key

with 8 or 2 I can adjust now the tilt/pitch of all photos until the legs of the tripod are fine
(cheat note: 2 key is pressed 9 times)

now pan a bit up until I see the black border and then press h then r that will show all the rows with horizontal one selected

again press 7 key 5 times as I expect to be the same roll to be fixed, then press 2 key until the cubic stones looks fine (cheat note: 2 key pressed 32 times) you can hold 2 key and if is too much then hold 8 key..

Now pan up toward the statue and look at the top of the church,

press u then r and as I haven't much features up I press b for a little help

now again, as for the horizontal row, I press 7 key 5 times then press 2 key until the top of the church is correctly overlapped

then I press v to make them visible again with no transparency.

And, that is for now smile

Stay tunned as I'm looking for some indoor environment where things can be more preciselly observed.

BTW I have also this example pano with blending but is too big for download, as at this stage, the blending is done via .png masks, still if there is much interes in seeing this blended I'll provide that link, just ask..

thanks for reading,
Dorin
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Bob Stone

Posts: 387
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 3 Sep 2012 at 23:54 GMT

DorinDXN said:

About controls
Fullscreen doesn't work due to Adobe restriction and you can't input keys (except few) in fullscreen.


I'm wondering if this is the reason the 7 & 9 keys don't work for me? The pano opens in full screen and there seems to be no way to exit full screen?

I am able to hold the space bar down and drag individual photos but have no individual control using the keypad.

Anyone else making it work?
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 4 Sep 2012 at 9:06 GMT
updated: 4 Sep 2012 at 9:11 GMT
Hi Bob, I tested with chrome 21.0.1180.83 m in Win XP and works, again is not suppose to enter in fullscreen.

But to be sure,please confirm this:

You pan in pano then press h, you suppose to see only the horizontal row, or is not so?

then keep 7 pressed (from right at numeric pad), all the photos in the horizontal row suppose to start to roll to left, instead with 9 will start to roll to right.

Are these happen?

If not, then, indeed, somehow, despite isn't coded so, it enters in fullscreen and you can input keys there except, arrows, space, tab and esc.

I'll make a sample with graphic buttons as well besides the keys but not right now..

thanks for reply and testing,
Dorin
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Jim Watters

Posts: 4
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: 5 May 2004
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 4 Sep 2012 at 14:48 GMT
I am on Firefox, and did not get 7&9 to do anything.

For your system to work you need already well defined parameters for the lens.

I don't know if I would want to align images in this manor. But I have adjusted sky images in PTGui so they align. Adding a few higher resolution images on top of low resolution but as soon as you need to make sure things match up at the all the way around 360° plus fit in a zenith and nadir, I'll use control points and stitcher. But as an instant preview to know that you shot everything and to indicate potential ghosts or half objects.

I like the idea of showing the original "stitchless" images. I could see this being used in forensics or in the courtroom. Probably still too much manipulation for them. Or as a movie mode where the user can follow the action as a new images in added one after another.

For a viewer I would like a simple mouse over to change the z order of the image to bring it to the top.
If there are multiple resolutions then the higher resolution images should only be visible (processed) When zoomed in enough.

to allow slower and low memory computers to work then the images should also be allowed to be tiled. But displayed as a whole.

Is it possible to use a panorama stitcher (PTGui) to get all the image orientations?

What preprocessing are being done to the images?

Ideally having a camera that records YPR to the EXIF data then using a wireless card to transmit the images to a nearby laptop where an assistant is advising you on how things are progressing.

Jim
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 4 Sep 2012 at 15:24 GMT
updated: 4 Sep 2012 at 15:44 GMT
Hi Jim, yes there is a Z on top but not on mouse over but on change view, still is dissabled as reduces the performances a bit.

The horizontal row and high resolution images have higher z order so you see them covering the others.

For journalistic, action,so on.. stitchless with fish eyes is the way to go, no doubth about that.

The processing of the images constists only in batch conversion from RAW to JPG with the DPP having enabled CA and distorsion correction, hopefully the future cameras will have those both in camera.

No lens parametters were used, appart, of course, what DPP uses for its correction.

The yaw, pitch and roll were assured by panohead, YPR in exif straight from the camera will be nice of course.

Having instant preview of the panorama, even in gigapixel, loading imagins according with zoom and the useful list can go on..

Yes, is possible to get the orientations from PTGui or Hugin resulting a pixel perfect align and display.

I have also blending (via the same png mask, not content aware yet)

I'll have a look/ find a sollution with those non working keys..

thanks for reply
Dorin
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Bob Stone

Posts: 387
Location: Rochester, NY, United States
Registered: 20 Oct 2007
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 4 Sep 2012 at 22:20 GMT

DorinDXN said:

But to be sure,please confirm this:

You pan in pano then press h, you suppose to see only the horizontal row, or is not so? Yes this is ok..
then keep 7 pressed (from right at numeric pad), all the photos in the horizontal row suppose to start to roll to left, instead with 9 will start to roll to right.

Are these happen? No, 7&9 do nothing.. 4&6 controls pan/yaw left and right and 2&8 work for tilt/pitch up and down. [Right click-Fullscreen] does nothing so I'm already in Fullscreen.

If not, then, indeed, somehow, despite isn't coded so, it enters in fullscreen and you can input keys there except, arrows, space, tab and esc. I can use all the arrow keys only after initially mouse clicking somewhere in the pano. And the space bar with mouse click works to drag individual photos while the tab and esc don't do anything.

Windows 7 and Firefox-Chrome
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: A bit further on
Posted: 5 Sep 2012 at 8:00 GMT
updated: 5 Sep 2012 at 8:09 GMT
Hi Bob, thanks for testing and reply.

If h works, then you're not in fullscreen, you may not have frame on browser window, is more like "fillscreen"

As you describe, the keyboard seems to be with the Num lock off, then 7 acts like Home and 9 acts like Pg Up and 4,8,6, and 2 acts like arrows and indeed does the panning.

If is so, please test again with Num Lock on, mean if in a text editor and you press 7 you must see the number 7 is typed.
For all the above to work the Num Lock must be on an you should use numeric keys on the right of the keyboard.

thanks,
Dorin
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