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Thread: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...

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Ken Warner

Posts: 821
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 12 Nov 2008 at 17:53 GMT
Some clever guy on one of the Java forums at Sun came up
with a way to use Google Analytics to track which Java
version each site visitor uses. It would be an interesting
add for Panoguide given the focus of the users here.

Here's the URL of the forum...

forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=53140&t...
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cowwoc

Posts: 1
Location: Canada
Registered: 12 Nov 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 16:43 GMT
I emailed James Rigg directly. Hopefully he'll give it a try smile
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Hans Nyberg

Posts: 2873
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 18:02 GMT
I do not think it is of any importance getting the stats for Panoguide.

The visitors here have Java for sure.

I would have installed it at panoramas,dk but I need to update the Analytics code to the new version to use it.
So that means all my pages has to be updated. As far as I can see iI can not use both codes at the same site.

Hans
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 19:10 GMT
Hans
You don't think it would be valuable to have more accurate information about Java use in light of how you repeatedly posted on this very forum that the "JAVA Console Enable" was checked by default in MSIE, whether JAVA was installed or not.

That was until you checked a computer that you knew didn't have JAVA and "JAVA Console Enable" wasn't even there to check in the Internet Option.

Your bias against JAVA is really obvious

I hope James Rigg generously provides this service as we all appreciate how he generously provides this website

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Matthew Rogers
[360 Precision]

Posts: 287
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Registered: 16 Jun 2005
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 19:15 GMT
Who really cares about Java, compared to the new Flash players Java is old hat. The only panoramic viewers I've ever had issues with or had customers report issues with have been Java.

It's about time to put a bullet in Java and let it rest in piece.

Matt
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 19:58 GMT
As usual Matt's completely out of tune with the rest of the world.

He says "It's about time to put a bullet in Java and let it rest in piece" while he participates in a forum who's Gallery uses a Java Viewer that works perfectly every time as well as almost all commercial virtual tour users like Marriott.com, Realtor.com, Sheraton Hotels, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Don't forget to take your meds today, Matt, your megalomania is flairing up again

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Ken Warner

Posts: 821
Location: Mammoth Lakes, United States
Registered: 14 Aug 2004
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 19:59 GMT
updated: 13 Nov 2008 at 20:02 GMT
The enhancements to the Google analytics code is supposed
to show the different versions of Java installed on
the visitor's machines.

The newest Java -- Java 1.6.0.10 -- is trying to fix
some of the problems we've all complained about.

So to me, it would be interesting to get a profile
of the different versions of Java that the visitors to
this site use since the people who frequent this site are
much more knowledgeable about Java and Flash and the
differences between them.

Those who still use earlier versions of Java -- including
the old MSJVM -- will be more likely to have problems.

And yes, Flash 10 beats the socks off of even the new
Java -- but maybe Java still has uses. It is simpler to
use and simpler for a person to deploy a Java viewer on
a simple website who only wants to show a couple of
panos and it's free.
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Hans Nyberg

Posts: 2873
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 23:27 GMT

Doug Aurand said:

Hans
You don't think it would be valuable to have more accurate information about Java use in light of how you repeatedly posted on this very forum that the "JAVA Console Enable" was checked by default in MSIE, whether JAVA was installed or not.
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM


Doug
Did you not read the link above to the tests made with this new analytics stat,
Quote/ "only 43% of web visitors seem to have Java installed."

Hans
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 23:40 GMT
Hans
That must be why Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton, Westin, Holiday Inns, Radisson, Travelocity, Orbitz, etc, etc, etc use Java Viewers for their virtual tours...because it has even an even lower installation rate than....QuickTime???????

Get real

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 23:43 GMT
Hans
The link said this too

- 92% of visitors have Java *or* MS JVM installed
- But, only 43% have Java installed (as detected by deployJava.js)

Which is it 92% or 43%?
I think the guy is confused

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Hans Nyberg

Posts: 2873
Location: Denmark
Registered: 28 Aug 2005
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 13 Nov 2008 at 23:55 GMT
updated: 13 Nov 2008 at 23:58 GMT
The 92% is probably the standard Analytics stat which only says that Java is enabled in browser. Which as I earlier showed does not mean it is installed and works.

Among my Firefox visitors that one says 90% and on all visitors 94%.
The referred site was a blog which is a typical Firefox users site.

Why the Hotels sites use it?
Its just because they believe the visitors can see them , not because they know they can.

Hans
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Vilmer

Posts: 474
Location: Argentina
Registered: 23 May 2007
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 14 Nov 2008 at 0:51 GMT
It would be cool if Google would put this script up in google.com. That way we could finally end this ongoing discussion.

As for those big hotel chains; they have those tours up and running for many years, way before flash was an alternative. A lot of them never even bothered to update them, so those tours are perfect examples of how it was done in the good old days.

I can imagine btw that quicktime is installed on more computers than java, you'll get it extra-free when you need to communicate with your ipod, or want to use itunes. And java? It seems you need it for internet banking in the states, the rest of the world doesn't need it anymore.
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 14 Nov 2008 at 16:02 GMT
updated: 14 Nov 2008 at 16:04 GMT
So you're saying Google Analytics has been mis-reporting whether Java is installed on multi-millions of computers in thousands, maybe millions, of Google Analytics website reports for several years now? very surprised

I'm glad we have in the Panoguide forums, since you know more about how Google Analytics works than the multi-billion dollar company created it. very surprised

And I guess you couldn't possible believe the IT departments of billion dollar hotel companies keep using Java to view virtual tours because it works? Of course you can't Hans, all those hundreds, maybe thousands, of IT guys at Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton, Westin, etc etc etc are obviously incompetent. wink

Or maybe you think its a conspiracy that the thousands of dollars spent on Java viewed hotel virtual tours has been wasted and they're keeping the secret from the top company management for...what reason????? confused

The computer I'm on now has both MS Java Virtual Machine (it came with it) and Sun Microsystems Java Runtime Environment and "Java Enabled" isn't selected in MSIE 7 because "Use JRE 1.6.0_05 for <applet>" is.

On my newer computer there isn't even an item under Internet Options, Advanced called "Enable Java" to be selected becasue its never had MS JVM, on Sun Java. So according to what you claim, there should be millions of Sun Java users that Google Analytics should be reporting as not having Java because there is no "Enable Java" for it to read.

Becasue of your obvious bias against Java, you haven't kept up with whats going on with Java since more and more computers no longer have MS JVM and are using Sun Java.

I guess I just have faith that the IT guys at these multi-billion dollar corporations actually know what they're doing.

But if you want to keep the "Java Conspiracy" a secret, you go right ahead. We won't tell. smile

Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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Doug Aurand

Posts: 3282
Location: Albuquerque, NM, United States
Registered: 2 Jan 2008
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 14 Nov 2008 at 16:31 GMT
Vilmer
The only "survey" about viewer installations is one started by Macromedia and continued by Adobe.

Here's a link to the latest update

www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/

Quickly it shows;

Flash 99%
Java 82%
Quicktime 64%

But I've always found it suspect because it only shows 77% of participants had Windows Media Player, but computer sale for years have reported Windows based PCs as over 90% of all desktop computer sales. So if the other 10% were all Macs, the WMP installation statistic would be 90% since WMP is inluded as part of Windows like QuickTime is on all Mac operating systems.

The reason the hotel wesbites started with Java Viewers is because Microsoft Java Virtual Machine was part of all versions of MS Windows from Windows 95 through the first couple years of Windows XP...that's a 100% intallation rate on PCs. And since there's been little reason for them to switch, they haven't.

Currently none of the major chain hotel wesbites support Flash, one supports QuickTime and another uses QuickTime as a secondary hi-rez viewing option after primary viewing with the Java based PTViewer.

Real estate virtual tour viewing in the US is dominated by the PTViewer, iPIX Java Viewer with the PURE Player used on a few tour hosting/distribution services.

Java is so much a part of the "Internet Infrastucture", I don't see it going away anytime soon. And I doubt Sun Microsystems plans on letting it disappear.

Take care
Doug Aurand
Albuquerque, NM
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James Rigg
[Panoguide]

Posts: 322
Location: London, United Kingdom
Registered: 1 Jun 2003
Re: Google statistics used to catagorize user Java versions...
Posted: 14 Nov 2008 at 16:34 GMT
updated: 14 Nov 2008 at 16:36 GMT
I haven't had a chance yet to add the additional analytics logic, but here's some stats for the last month for panoguide, just for those of you who are interested:-

Oct 14 2008 - Nov 13 2008
Total visits: 37,351 (21,950 unique visitors)
Page impressions: 153,418**
** note Google Analytics are not on every page

Java enabled: 35,389 (94.75%)

Flash versions
1.  9.0 r124	19,487 	52.17% 	
2. 10.0 r12 9,774 26.17%
3. 9.0 r115 2,670 7.15%
4. (not set) 1,710 4.58%
5. 9.0 r45 937 2.51%
6. 9.0 r47 875 2.34%
7. 9.0 r28 672 1.80%
8. 10.0 r2 305 0.82%
9. 9.0 r16 137 0.37%
10. 8.0 r22 122 0.33%

* I think "not set" means no Flash installed

Web browsers (top 5):
1. Firefox		16,421 	43.96% 	
2. Internet Explorer 14,251 38.15%
3. Safari 4,506 12.06%
4. Opera 1,221 3.27%
5. Chrome 599 1.60%

Screen resolutions (top 5):
1. 1024x768	7,149 	19.14% 	
2. 1280x1024 6,943 18.59%
3. 1680x1050 5,364 14.36%
4. 1280x800 4,896 13.11%
5. 1920x1200 3,849 10.30%

Operating Systems (top 5):
1. Windows	29,987 	80.28% 	
2. Macintosh 6,485 17.36%
3. Linux 710 1.90%
4. iPhone 88 0.24%
5. (not set) 35 0.09%

In case you are wondering, no I do not have an iPhone so it's not me testing panoguide on an iPhone that causes the iPhone to appear.
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