Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 602
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 14:18 GMT
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Hey Dorin,
Very interesting project. We're proud to see you using the R1.
Curious how you are mounting the rotator. Do you mount to a ball head (if so what QRS) or direct to leveler/tripod neck? If using a QRS it is important you have the plate "securely" mounted to base of rotator before mounting to clamp - true with any pano head really. Because the R1 has a small rotator (and small footprint) you don't have as much mounting surface to play with at the base. Lots of continued use sometimes sees the plate becoming loose and it's natural tendency to try to tighten while the plate is still attached to the clamp - a no no. We urge folks to take the plate off the clamp to re-tighten. I mention this as you are seeking maximum precision in a controlled environment. And this is even more crucial when shooting 360x180 with full frame cameras at 0 degree as with the 10.5. I'm sure you're already aware of this but thought it good to make mention here.
Looking forward to seeing your project come to light - keep up the good work.
Cheers
Bill
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bigwade
Posts: 844
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 18:10 GMT
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DorinDXN said: Thanks Frank I hope when many users will encounter this major problem chances are that the problem to become minor or no problem at all.
Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
Dorin, if DevalVR is the only way to see the results of your work, you have a problem.
People at companies are not allowed to install such software and most privat people won't.
Of course you can say just do it but that is not going to work in real life.
There should be some flash translation at the end otherwise the project won't be succesfull.
Compare it with television CNN in Dutch only 
Do you really think the rest of the world would learn Dutch to see/understand it ? no way..
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 19:10 GMT
updated: 15 Jul 2009 at 19:14 GMT
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Panoramix NO said: but i dont believe that any automatic stiching can do the job for panos from festival, marathon etc avoiding half-ghosted, double-faced or three-armed persons...
Excellent point!
Bill Bailey said: Hey Dorin,
Very interesting project. We're proud to see you using the R1.
Curious how you are mounting the rotator. Do you mount to a ball head (if so what QRS) or direct to leveler/tripod neck? If using a QRS it is important you have the plate "securely" mounted to base of rotator before mounting to clamp - true with any pano head really. Because the R1 has a small rotator (and small footprint) you don't have as much mounting surface to play with at the base. Lots of continued use sometimes sees the plate becoming loose and it's natural tendency to try to tighten while the plate is still attached to the clamp - a no no. We urge folks to take the plate off the clamp to re-tighten. I mention this as you are seeking maximum precision in a controlled environment. And this is even more crucial when shooting 360x180 with full frame cameras at 0 degree as with the 10.5. I'm sure you're already aware of this but thought it good to make mention here.
Looking forward to seeing your project come to light - keep up the good work.
Hi Bill thanks for your support. My English is again not good enough, I said that I don't have a R1.
Using my RD-16, a lower rail from NN3 and a small tripod head I improvised a setup whch act like an R1.
I consider R1 perfect suited for this due to this info from your website
8 precise on-the-fly tilting options (-15, -10, -7.5, -2.5, 0, +5, +7.5, +12.5 deg)
@Frank,
Dutch audience will be just fine to start with
Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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bigwade
Posts: 844
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 19:13 GMT
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DorinDXN said: @Frank,
Dutch audience will be just fine to start with
Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
Don't ! Share it ! )))))))))
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 602
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 19:22 GMT
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DorinDXN said: Bill Bailey said: Hey Dorin,
Very interesting project. We're proud to see you using the R1.
Hi Bill thanks for your support. My English is again not good enough, I said that I don't have a R1.
Hey Dorin, I had thought you purchased one - touch bases with me off site - we'll fix that.
cheers
Bill
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Bill Bailey
[NodalNinja]
Posts: 602
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Registered: 27 Jan 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 19:24 GMT
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DorinDXN said: Bill Bailey said: Hey Dorin,
Very interesting project. We're proud to see you using the R1.
Hi Bill thanks for your support. My English is again not good enough, I said that I don't have a R1.
Hey Dorin, I had thought you purchased one - touch bases with me off site - we'll fix that.
cheers
Bill
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Philip Warner
Posts: 122
Location: Round Rock, TX, United States
Registered: 14 Mar 2008
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 18 Jul 2009 at 16:38 GMT
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Dorin,
What's the difference from this and a time lapse panorama?
Phil
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fiero
Posts: 332
Location: DevalVR developer, Spain
Registered: 6 Jul 2005
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 18 Jul 2009 at 19:09 GMT
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Philip Warner said: Dorin,
What's the difference from this and a time lapse panorama?
Hi Philip,
Maybe Dorin can explain it better but I will try.
Usually a panorama requires this process:
Shot the images -> Stitching -> Retouching -> Save to equirect or cube-> upload to web
The Dorin's method is:
Shot the images -> Convert fisheyes to cube faces -> Upload to web
All the time when you see the panorama you only see about two cube faces. When you rotate the camera, the cube faces in front of the camera is changing.
You can understand this in the latest example, click 19:24 panorama. You can see a girl walking, if you rotate to the right you can see the girl in two new different positions. You never will see the girl duplicated in the scene, because you only see the image of ONE fisheye every time.
This Dorin's method is very interesting, because you see always a real image, without retouching. And to put the date/time of every shot is a good idea too!
Good work!
fiero
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 18 Jul 2009 at 22:03 GMT
updated: 18 Jul 2009 at 22:23 GMT
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Thank you Fiero!
A very good explanation.
The quality will be better the upload speed will be better, also some new features in DevalVR, thanks again Fiero, will allow a better panning experience, and made possible CD stand alone variants,
And my new R1, on the way, thank you Bill , will assure the less jump and even less parallax than the actuall setup I used.
About the quality will be increased using some different approaches.
I started to simulate a high quality in this link
www.livepanoramas.com/event/9071817HQ/
it will take several hours to process & upload.
The good part of this is that is completelly automated first 10 pushes was done with the notebook folded, for the last ones I unfolded to see the last levels of the battery as the voice synthesis not cover yet the power levels.
Only I had to do is to shoot, the little MSI Wind you see even worked and uploaded the panos in my rucsack, while I was walking. About the MSI is significantly slower than the bigger Acer I used before but the CPU clock (1.6 GHz) is about the same, I should investigate why is slower.
there are some approaches to increase the speed, one is to reduce the job of the on field notebook to only shoot and upload then a powerfull desktop to do the CA @ vigneting correction, converting to cube faces and the final upload.
I'll keep you informed.
Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
p.s.
Yes, I was lucky to have even some twins in the third push 17:56
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Wim Koornneef
Posts: 119
Location: Ouddorp, Netherlands
Registered: 15 Nov 2007
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 23 Jul 2009 at 9:46 GMT
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Hello Dorin,
Congratulations, this is a fresh approach of processing and displaying panos !
Viewing was not easy as I had to startup Parallels to get Windows on my MacBook and to install DevalVR but it was worth it.
I can see that several things can and must be improved to make your method acceptable as an alternative for more common ones.
To name a few:
1) The average time jump between neighbouring images is to long, in one pano I noticed a time jump of almost half a minute and that is really to much.
The best thing to beat this problem is to motorize your new R1, even with a cheap accu driven screwdriver with external electrical contacts, micro switch or reed contact you can manage to shoot the round shots in less then 10 seconds.
And yes, most likely you will be then visible in the scene so you must find a solution for that if you think that is a problem.
2) Use a timer to get a precise timelapse between the panos.
3) Limit the view of the viewer, it is not pleasant to look at a black hole.
4) Dissolve the transition between the cube faces, the present jumping of brightness and objects in the scene is disturbing.
Apart from above I really like your approach, as said it it is fresh and for sure it has potential so I hope you can fine tune it to tackle the issues.
BTW, in your last series I saw Cyprian, a familar face for me from the PanoTools Meeting of last year.
Is Cyprian involved in your project ?
Best,
Wim
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 23 Jul 2009 at 10:24 GMT
updated: 23 Jul 2009 at 10:25 GMT
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Hi Wim, thank you for the reply.
As you know the quality is important for me and those issues you kindly outlined ant others as well will be adressed ASAP.
Until the R1 will arrive I'll try couple of live handhelded live panoramas, I'll post here when I'll proceed. I already designed the handheld, say, "panohead" will be ready today or tomorrow at the last, then I'll adapt the R1 for handled method.
Ciprian is not involved yet but when electronics will enter in my project, he, as teacher at University, Electronics and Optics, will be consulted of course.
Speaking of PanoTools Meeting.
I'm not so activ on PanoToolsNG but I'll try to participate, (though not 100% sure) in one of those days of the meeting and to cover with couple of live panoramas.
It will be here in Timisoara this year, as you are aware of.
Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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DorinDXN
Posts: 3086
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
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Henk Keijzer
Posts: 15
Location: Netherlands
Registered: 11 Jul 2004
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Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 25 Jul 2009 at 18:00 GMT
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Hi Dorin,
Congrats with your 2000th post. I'm a regular reader and always interested in your experiments.
Best regards,
Henk Keijzer
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