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Thread: Live Panoramas

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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 10:17 GMT
updated: 14 Jul 2009 at 10:32 GMT
Hi, I started a new project which introduces a new kind of panoramics made from multiple shoots with a fish eye.

I called this "live panoramas" because them are on-line couple of minutes after the shoot, 5-9 minutes using my actual hardware and mobile connection.
It could be even faster but I took in consideration to made on the fly CA correction, vigneting correction and aplying the final sharpness as well,
the result worth that extra delay, the panoramas look much better.
However my notebook is not so fast the time can be very much reduced by using a faster one.

The software I wrote works even when the notebook is folded and comunicate with the panographer by talking (synthesis voice) the notebook works like panoramic wireless transmitter, a vodafone mobile connection is used for upload, and assures the independence from various wireless networks whch may or may not be available.

the only limitation is now
in time: the battery of my notebook (which last about 1.5 -2 hours or so)
in FOV: the non ful-frame camera of mine, I mean o a full frame the sphere is complete, on my 350D is not.

Using my stitchless method the panos can be shoot from tripod using a lens ring like R1 from NodalNinja (I improvised an R1 from my RD-16 for the exemples I will show) or even handheld (I intend to use Kirk's sugestion to use a car compass)

I would add as arguments for "live" that is no blending nor edditing and over the screen in a corner the date:time (get from the exif) and the gps position (when that will be available) will be shown. If you remmeber the viewer shows what camera saw when was pointed in one out of 6 position at shooting.

Is no need to wait for the upload, I mean if the event is very dynamic, I can shoot 6 panos in 3 minutes or less, but the last one will be on-line when the software process it (half an hour later with current gear).

I think you will find usefull for journalistic VR or in situations when no editing is alowed: forensic, aliens landing so on..

About the examples I will show.
is need for DevalVR to be able to see it.

I'm in talks for a interesting event which will be announced at least one week before and that will be the official launch of my newest website www.livepanoramas.com
but there will be also "casual" events which will be announced couple of minutes before, as I'am aware of that opportunity. So stay tunned, whatever that means on panoguide( RSS feed or such).
However a record of the event (for each sepparate "push"/pano) will be keept so you can see it later on, when you can.

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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number-88

Posts: 22
Location: Helmond, Netherlands
Registered: 16 Mar 2008
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 11:58 GMT
Hi Dorin...

Looks / sounds interesting!! Will follow this thread!!

Greetings from The Netherlands

Rick
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 14:16 GMT
updated: 14 Jul 2009 at 14:36 GMT
Thanks Rick.

I must add some info, and thus responding to some questions I received on my e-mail, like why I indicated R1 as there are aother ring lens available?

Yes they are but I have some particular needs for this project so I used this info about R1
8 precise on-the-fly tilting options (-15, -10, -7.5, -2.5, 0, +5, +7.5, +12.5 deg)

On crop, the sphere is not complete up and down,
Camera must be in landscape position, that's due to landscape format of the the common computer display,
Although the sphere is not complete, the panographer can choose the FOV of interest by precise titling the camera with those values of R1, by color coding (a RGB area visible in the left or the right) or by the mouse wheel the tilting is passed to the software, and such the pano is ok as leveling concerns, the panohead must be leveled, of course.

As it works without human intervention, the man who operate it only must to know to level and to listen to what the software says, upload progress, ready stage warnings about too loong exposure times so on.

Also about the question if would use enfuse to cover the dynamic range, while is perfect possible to extract on the fly +-EV variants from RAW and enfuse them, the short answer is Not, because in my oppinion the enfused image needs for a extra further adjustment from a human eye and I rather to let the camera on AV mode.

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 19:09 GMT
updated: 14 Jul 2009 at 19:10 GMT
Hi,
Can anyone please upload or send to me via e-mail a jpeg out from camera or converted from RAW but having the GPS info in it.
I'll not publish anything I'll only use the image to test the extraction of GPS data for live panoramas.
Anticipated thanks.

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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Panoramix NO

Posts: 64
Location: Tromso, Norway
Registered: 17 Jul 2008
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 19:47 GMT
as its in commercial announce forum,

i would ask less optimistic question wink

whats the price?
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Smooth

Posts: 4310
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 20:08 GMT

DorinDXN said:

Hi,
Can anyone please upload or send to me via e-mail a jpeg out from camera or converted from RAW but having the GPS info in it.


Hello Dorin,

I have uploaded and image for you. I have sent you the download link.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.smooth360.info
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 20:27 GMT
updated: 14 Jul 2009 at 20:51 GMT
Hi PanoramixNO, let's postpone that after a couple of events with live panoramas, to allow anybody to understand better what this is all about.

Thank you very much Smooth!
it has even the altitude 265m smile

L.E. and direction too.. that calls for a nice compass..
No! even better! that can tell me about the yaw smile

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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bigwade

Posts: 847
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Registered: 19 Oct 2005
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 23:08 GMT

DorinDXN said:

About the examples I will show.
is need for DevalVR to be able to see it.


and that's the major problem.......
I like what you are doing but DevalVR is not for Mac and "normal" PC users don't install DevalVR...
That was the problem with QT on PC, solved now by Flash, any one can see.
grtz
Frank
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Smooth

Posts: 4310
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 6:28 GMT

DorinDXN said:

Thank you very much Smooth!
it has even the altitude 265m smile

L.E. and direction too.. that calls for a nice compass..
No! even better! that can tell me about the yaw smile


Yes, it has an electronic compass that works based on "Magnetic North" which is different to true North. Magnetic declination is the variation between the local magnetic field, which is used by the magnetic compass to determine heading, and geographic true north.

Just how accurate it is for what your doing, I cannot say.

Regards, Smooth cool
www.smooth360.info
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 8:10 GMT
Thanks Frank I hope when many users will encounter this major problem chances are that the problem to become minor or no problem at all.

Smooth, is no need to be very accurate, the rotator of the R1 is accurate.
Let's have a look at how the software will think

Shoot 1 (0° yaw) - it read the direction from exif ,say D1
Shoot 2 (60° yaw)- D2
Shoot 3 (120° yaw)- D3
Shoot 4 (180° yaw)- D4
Shoot 5 (240° yaw)- D5
Shoot 6 (300° yaw)- D6

now in the pano say only toward the stage is someting important or interesting and now is

Shoot x - Dx
now it will compute whith which from D1..D6 the Dx is most closer
if it found out that is closer to D4 than any other that mean 180° of yaw.

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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Smooth

Posts: 4310
Location: Mount Panorama, Australia
Registered: 21 Jul 2004
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 8:34 GMT
Oh OK,

I see what you are doing. Very good. Problem is, that not all cameras will offer this information.

No direct GPS for Canon etc as far as I'm aware. cry

Regards, Smooth cool
www.smooth360.info
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 9:41 GMT
updated: 15 Jul 2009 at 9:55 GMT

Smooth said:

Problem is, that not all cameras will offer this information.

No direct GPS for Canon etc as far as I'm aware. cry

Regards, Smooth cool
www.smooth360.info


Those wihout gps direction will use color coding.

Imagine that under the rotator whe have this ring (it doesn't rotate with panohead)

at that size to be just a bit visible at the lower edge of the image.
From the software is very easy to see that in a particular area red is much more than green and blue.

so the diagram above become (R=red, G=green, B=blue)

Shoot 1 (0° yaw) - it read the color at bottom ,say RR
Shoot 2 (60° yaw)- RG
Shoot 3 (120° yaw)- GG
Shoot 4 (180° yaw)- GB
Shoot 5 (240° yaw)- BB
Shoot 6 (300° yaw)- BR

when Shoot x comes it knows where it goes after the colors it "see" if it see green and blue that calls for GB and knows that is 180° yaw

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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Panoramix NO

Posts: 64
Location: Tromso, Norway
Registered: 17 Jul 2008
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 11:47 GMT
does it mean you cant use any other ring? (for ex atome?)
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DorinDXN

Posts: 3116
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Registered: 14 Nov 2006
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 12:17 GMT
updated: 15 Jul 2009 at 12:23 GMT
You can use Atome or any other ring, the benefits of R1 comes on crop when by tilting the camera with a predetermined value in ° you can choose the vertical fov of interest.

I remind you that with the stitchless method the parallax and lack of the precission will mean little jumps at panning.
For live, or no human intervention at all, a precise panohead both on panning and tilting will mean no jumps at all.

In short with a lens ring with no tilting or with fixed tilting of the camera the vertical FOV is fixed, but that can be ok in situations.

For the moment I don't have a R1 but I mounted on the RD-16 a tripod head which allows me to tilt the camera. That will be ok for the examples I'll show. so if one can manage to tilt the lens ring with a certain value could be enough for his needs even if is fixed. i.e. as the imporant area in the pano is mostly on the floor rather than sky, tilting the lens down with 10-15 ° could be enough for many situations (again the camera is in landscape position)
for fullframe or 4.x mm FE on crop is no need for tilting, except when one wants to use the middle of the lens for better quality.

Cheers, Dorin
www.livepanoramas.com
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Panoramix NO

Posts: 64
Location: Tromso, Norway
Registered: 17 Jul 2008
Re: Live Panoramas
Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 14:45 GMT
livepanoramas sounds like attempt to some VR journalism,
sound nice,
but i dont believe that any automatic stiching can do the job for panos from festival, marathon etc avoiding half-ghosted, double-faced or three-armed persons...
otherwise for estate panos (without anything alive on pano) could be very time saving
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